Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

[KSUowls]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Strong disagree. Vader was all about the mystique of not knowing what the hell was going on with him and what lengths this total badass would go to. Darth Vader was a lot more complex of a character than you're giving him credit for.

Being more explicit about a character doesn't necessarily make him better or have more depth, which is what I think you're trying to imply about Kylo Ren. Plus, Kylo Ren is pitched as basically Vader 2.0 so it's just not original to have the masked, caped guy...again.

Also, my feeling is that Adam Driver was miscast as Kylo Ren. Frankly he just kinda looks and sounds too wimpy for the role. A good actor, sure, but you just can't take him seriously as a legitimate villain in this manner (I think he could play more cerebral villains well, but not force-y blockbuster ones). The only moment where I kind of saw something in him is when he ran Han Solo through. Otherwise he's mostly been a tempermental, bratty, Snoke boot-licking plot device (until he kills Snoke anyway).

100% agree

The Star Wars franchise had been around for almost a decade before I was born so I never really 'lived' it. I was still exposed to it before the pequels came out though. Also, with regard to any form of story More is not always better. The phrase "less is more" absolutely applied in the OT. The fact that we never had this deep exposition of Vader or the Emperor was never a problem because their status was almost mystical. Those brief allusions to Vader and his master by the other characters were enough. Mix in some scenes that actually feature them like Vader interrogating Leia in IV and the absolute fear displayed by the entire bridge in V when Vader's Star Destroyer is chasing the Falcon and it just all ties together.

With Kylo we do get a much deeper exploration of his character and complexities. This could actually be a good thing as we've already had the mystical villain role played out in the OT, but I think the execution hasn't been there. Part of it is I think that Adam Driver was absolutely miscast (I know I'm not the only one who couldn't take him seriously the moment he removed his helmet in TFA). I think an equally, or even more, compelling factor in that though has been the way his character was written which often seems to conveniently ignore the fact that he has been one of the leaders of The First Order for several years before we ever meet him in TFA. Only if you ignore that then does the complete lack of fear from his subordinates (ie: the Vader example earlier) and the random outbursts like that of an emo teen start to make sense.

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Also, my feeling is that Adam Driver was miscast as Kylo Ren. Frankly he just kinda looks and sounds too wimpy for the role. A good actor, sure, but you just can't take him seriously as a legitimate villain in this manner.

I agree whole-heartedly and my buddy who's also a huge Star Wars fan has this argument with me practically on a weekly basis. I think Driver is a great actor but he doesn't fit the role. My friend swears that's the point--he's supposed to be wimpy. Regardless of the reason, it's not my cup of tea.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

The mystique of Darth Vader is built up by his commanding use of the force, his ruthlessness, and the small tidbits of exposition from Obi-Wan. He's built up as a terrifying, evil force. Much of his "complexity" is in service for Luke's development for the better part of the OT. Vader's quickturn redemption in Return of the Jedi has always felt too sudden for me because it never allowed itself enough time to build and develop the character as an emotional complex entity.

Kylo is emotionally complex to a fault at times. He may not have Vader's mystique or evil potency, but he is more complex than Vader was in the OT. Even if you include Anakin's story in the prequels I feel like Kylo is at least on equal footing as far as complexity. The character may be closely aligned to Anakin/Vader's overall development, but I feel like they're executing his development far better in these last two movies than previously before.

1st bold section: Exactly. That's the point. That Luke Skywalker is ultimately what the original trilogy is about doesn't diminish Vader at all to me.

2nd bold section: One man's complexity is another man's emo.

[Cardot]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Cinemasins

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[Caulfield]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Cinemasins

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I already know what's wrong with the last Jedi. What I need is someone to tell me what they're gonna do to repair the franchise in the next jedi.

[KSUowls]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I already know what's wrong with the last Jedi. What I need is someone to tell me what they're gonna do to repair the franchise in the next jedi.

I'm just waiting for the announcement that Rian Johnson has been removed from the unannounced SW trilogy. I hate that a beloved franchise is turning into a hard pass for me.

[eremiomania]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I really liked TFA and R1. TLJ drove me nuts and I have zero interest in seeing someone else play Han Solo. Really hope I like EP9 and that the next spin off is an Obi Wan movie with Ewan back. Just my take.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I've enjoyed the movies. The lack of games is the biggest disappointment to me by far.

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

As much as I disliked TLJ it doesn’t make me want to see Solo any less. I’m really looking forward to seeing it today. As for Johnson’s upcoming trilogy, I’m looking forward to it too because it’s Star Wars. My biggest issue with TLJ was that it didn’t seem to follow up with TFA, but with Johnson just doing his own trilogy I think it could be good.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Having seen this last night I can say I was pleasantly surprised by how enjoyable this was. I was a big time skeptic when this was announced and Han was cast. I thought Glover as Lando would be the only positive of this but I got a little more enthused as the movie came along with trailers and what not and sitting in the theater I had a MUCH better time than I did with Last Jedi and the cameo in this one blew me away. If you’re a Star Wars fan, I think you’ll enjoy this film unless you’ve just convinced yourself you hate its existence already. You go in open and not looking for a reason to hate it and you’ll leave satisfied.


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[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

No one should skip Solo due to their hate for TLJ. It's a fun, solid movie without a trace of Rian Johnson-ness.

[Smallville102001]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I love TLJ makes me shack my head when people say it is worse then episodes 1-3 flat out laughable is what that is. TLJ is one of 4 star wars movies i love. I like 3 and cant stand 2 of them. I am skipping Solo because it just looks boring from the previews and i can tell if i am going to like a movie or not from the previews like 90% of the time and i thought a solo movie was like a pointless thing to do in the first place. There are much better ideas i think for a spin off then a solo one like a Yado movie.

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Rogue One and The Last Jedi don't pick up for me until the final third of their respective films.

I may have been the first user in this thread to be lukewarm to the film off my first viewing, and I was sitting there wondering what the others were flat out amazed by. Maybe it was the callbacks and that final third, mixed with a compelled raving audience (trust me, that experience helps).

I've seen it twice in theaters and will get the Blu-ray on Black Friday, but what J.J. Abrams did with The Force Awakens is where I hoped this franchise would remain. TLJ is a little too different and separated from that. I was trying to convince my two sisters to see TFA in preparation for TLJ; I don't have anywhere near that same kind of excitement to do anymore.

The only SW films I hold in high regard are 3, 4, 5, and 7 (that order is numerical only).

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I'm super late to this. But I just saw this tonight. And man... what a letdown. I'm literally irritated I was looking forward to ever watching this. Star Wars has always been one of my favorite series and I feel like Disney just took a giant dump on everything I loved.

Skywalker is forever ruined in my eyes. I'll always have that image of his astroprojection dusting his shoulder off like a Jay-Z music video. Or him slurping down some weird green milk from a eight titted creature.

This is the first star wars movie ever that I found myself not paying attention to certain parts. The Fin and whatever her name is scenes were just boring I found myself disliking the majority of the characters. I only really liked Rey and Kylo. The only true characters with any substance. Even though Kylo is incredibly weak for a villain.

That part where Kylo tells Rey. Let's just let the rebellion be destroyed. Yea... I can agree with Kylo on that. Would have been a better ending.

The whole movie just felt forced terribly timed and very predictable.

Rant/





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[Boltman]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Yea it wasn't that good (to me). I'd say disappointed is a good word.