Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Couple things....

1. Nobody knew of his lineage outside of the Starks, Sam and Tyrion since Dany and Varys are both dead. I know Varys was in the middle of writing to let people know of Jon's lineage but nothing was ever confirmed so I'm left to operate under the assumption that nobody else knew.

2. I don't think you can compare the fallout to the same fallout that befell Jaime. Jaime killed the Mad King based on what he knew he was going to do, Jon killed her based on what she had already done and would continue to do. While I get there may have been some blowback, it certainly wouldnt have come from Kings Landing since there was nobody left at this point anyways.

3. He pissed people off at the wall because he made the tough decision to bring the free folk south of the wall so they turned on him, turns out that decision was necessary long term. I wouldn't say he pissed people off in the north and lost support but they questioned his decision to align himself with Dany to fight the dead but, again, that was proven to be necessary in the end as well.

I will agree that he wouldn't be the greatest at navigating politically but it isn't like Bran proved anything other then he can warg into crows and sit and stare into space constantly. I'd rather have Jon who has shown a willingness to make the tough call for the greater good over Bran who showed zero ability to lead or do anything but maybe thats just me.

1. Kind of besides the point. But why would we assume that no one else would find out even if we are assuming Varys never got the word out?

When Tyrion spoke to Varys, the first thing he asks is who else knows. Then he says, well it's not a secret then. Hundreds will know soon. Hell we saw how quickly Jon let the cat out the bag, then Sansa, then Tyrion. And those were after they promised not to tell. So why would we believe that would be kept secret now?

Based on what we've seen, it would make more sense to assume that the people would find out.

2. Mad King did a lot of ****ed up things before he decided to wildfire the city. Part of the reason why he was given the name. I'm not saying Jamie did it for those reasons. But only Jamie knew what the King was about to do before he killed them. So even with people knowing how ****ty the Mad King was, Jamie was still vilified throughout the kingdom. It's not a reach that Jon could get similar treatment.

Just pointing out again, Tyrion in this episode said half the people hate him for being with the Queen and the other half hate him for betraying her. Why would Jon be treated any differently?

3) Agreed that in retrospect the decisions he made were the right decisions. The problem is in the moments leading up to them, he alienated his subordinates and the people he was supposed to be leading. The Nights Watch wanted no part of the wildlings and he brings them across the wall. The North have sought out their independence from season one and then, once he becomes king in the north, he bends the knee to a foreigner.

He doesn't know how to manage people or play "the game". He just does what he feels is right. And in the show we see how it has negatively affected the people he is supposed to be leading, whether it winds up being the right thing in the future or not. As King, he couldn't continue doing that. He would have to be smarter, which he hasn't shown that he's able to do to this point.

Bran on the other hand is "the three eyed Raven". He knows all of history. How each decision has played out throughout each reign. He can see or predict the future (I think... maybe...who knows? Lol). He's best equipped to make decisions more than anyone with the "powers" he has. And more than anything else, he wouldn't make any decisions out of personal gain or let emotions cloud his judgement like the other characters would.

Dany has taken her dragons and fled by herself multiple times through the years. There is actually precedent for that, unlike a majority of what played out this season. Besides, everyone in Kings Landing saw the massive dragon fly away. You think the Unsullied wouldn't believe Jon if he told them that she left? It's not like you need some clever plan to get away with it; that was the point.

Comparing Jon to Walter White is so apples-to-oranges it doesn't need to be addressed.

That wasn't the point at all. The point is Jon Snow would not do that to begin with.

For all of this talk about character arcs and what character would or would not do, you think it makes sense for Jon to kill Dany and then try to get away with it? Cmon now. Y'all critics would have had a field day with that [emoji23]

My joke about Walter White was not about comparing their characters. It was just made in reference to you saying he should have cleaned up the blood (breaking bad style) to get away with a murder. Lol

[ehh]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

That wasn't the point at all. The point is Jon Snow would not do that to begin with.

For all of this talk about character arcs and what character would or would not do, you think it makes sense for Jon to kill Dany and then try to get away with it? Cmon now. Y'all critics would have had a field day with that

That was the point, my point. I made it in my first post, I think I know what it was.

If this was at all rooted in logic, if Jon kills her, he knows he's a dead man. If you commit regicide, you die. It's as simple as that, unless the next ruler pardons you (Jamie, Jon), but Jon doesn't have the luxury of thinking that far down the road. He knows the Unsullied and the Dothraki. For ****s sake, two scenes earlier Grey Worm is executing surrendered Lannister forces in the streets AND had a moment of static with Jon. You really think Grey Worm wouldn't kill Jon immediately? For Jon to kill Dany, then think the Unsullied will merely capture him and keep him alive until a yet-to-be-determined court of law decides his fate is so unbelievably stupid and illogical. How is that more believable than him trying to flee before Dany's forces capture him? You are throwing away everything we've established about the Unsullied and Dothraki.

The only reason this debate even exists is that the Unsullied and Dothraki--as is the biggest problem of the last two seasons--acted completely out of character. They should have killed Jon on-sight. Jon should be dead, but once again, we're letting the plot drive the cart instead of the characters.

[The Chef]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

1. Kind of besides the point. But why would we assume that no one else would find out even if we are assuming Varys never got the word out?

When Tyrion spoke to Varys, the first thing he asks is who else knows. Then he says, well it's not a secret then. Hundreds will know soon. Hell we saw how quickly Jon let the cat out the bag, then Sansa, then Tyrion. And those were after they promised not to tell. So why would we believe that would be kept secret now?

Based on what we've seen, it would make more sense to assume that the people would find out.

2. Mad King did a lot of ****ed up things before he decided to wildfire the city. Part of the reason why he was given the name. I'm not saying Jamie did it for those reasons. But only Jamie knew what the King was about to do before he killed them. So even with people knowing how ****ty the Mad King was, Jamie was still vilified throughout the kingdom. It's not a reach that Jon could get similar treatment.

Just pointing out again, Tyrion in this episode said half the people hate him for being with the Queen and the other half hate him for betraying her. Why would Jon be treated any differently?

3) Agreed that in retrospect the decisions he made were the right decisions. The problem is in the moments leading up to them, he alienated his subordinates and the people he was supposed to be leading. The Nights Watch wanted no part of the wildlings and he brings them across the wall. The North have sought out their independence from season one and then, once he becomes king in the north, he bends the knee to a foreigner.

He doesn't know how to manage people or play "the game". He just does what he feels is right. And in the show we see how it has negatively affected the people he is supposed to be leading, whether it winds up being the right thing in the future or not. As King, he couldn't continue doing that. He would have to be smarter, which he hasn't shown that he's able to do to this point.

Bran on the other hand is "the three eyed Raven". He knows all of history. How each decision has played out throughout each reign. He can see or predict the future (I think... maybe...who knows? Lol). He's best equipped to make decisions more than anyone with the "powers" he has. And more than anything else, he wouldn't make any decisions out of personal gain or let emotions cloud his judgement like the other characters would.

1. Well my reasoning is if they really wanted people to know, then when they were all sitting around deciding who would rule would have been the perfect time for someone in the "know" to say something and nobody did. It was as if Jon was a complete after thought other then Sansa asking where he was, to which she put up zero fight about when told. The people aren't the brightest, I mean Jon rode a dragon and nobody outside of Tyrion or Dany seemed to even take notice to how unusual that was. Tormund saw it and didn't seem to put it together, **** anyone at Winterfell saw it during the fight with the dead and nobody apparently put it together then either. I refuse to give the common folk or even the so called "Lords" any benefit of the doubt as they don't seem too bright.

2. That whole spiel by Tyrion was over dramatic. The worst he did was take off his badge and toss it down the stairs, nobody knew about him letting Jaime free and probably never would have since very few really knew it seems. Logically he distanced himself from the Queen after she decided to go all ballistic on the civilians for no reason, he didn't kill her, so I doubt anyone would have hated him for that. I get it, it was said, but imo it was complete over dramatization.

3. I get what you're saying to a degree regarding Bran but if he can see the future then that means he knew Dany would torch the city and Jon would kill her leaving the throne open for the taking. If he did then he definitely let things play out the way they did for his own personal gain. I just don't see how Bran who accomplished very little and the powers of being the three eyed raven were never really put on full display is somehow a better option then Jon and having strong advisors around him. I feel like I'm arguing points that make no difference and are based on things that didn't happen anyways so I'll leave it alone.

[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

That was the point, my point. I made it in my first post, I think I know what it was. [emoji38]

If this was at all rooted in logic, if Jon kills her, he knows he's a dead man. If you commit regicide, you die. It's as simple as that, unless the next ruler pardons you (Jamie, Jon), but Jon doesn't have the luxury of thinking that far down the road. He knows the Unsullied and the Dothraki. For ****s sake, two scenes earlier Grey Worm is executing surrendered Lannister forces in the streets AND had a moment of static with Jon. You really think Grey Worm wouldn't kill Jon immediately? For Jon to kill Dany, then think the Unsullied will merely capture him and keep him alive until a yet-to-be-determined court of law decides his fate is so unbelievably stupid and illogical. How is that more believable than him trying to flee before Dany's forces capture him? You are throwing away everything we've established about the Unsullied and Dothraki.

The only reason this debate even exists is that the Unsullied and Dothraki--as is the biggest problem of the last two seasons--acted completely out of character. They should have killed Jon on-sight. Jon should be dead, but once again, we're letting the plot drive the cart instead of the characters.

You got it man. You're not even following the logic of our "debate" anymore because you're so quick to be defensive of your opinion at this point.

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[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

1. Well my reasoning is if they really wanted people to know, then when they were all sitting around deciding who would rule would have been the perfect time for someone in the "know" to say something and nobody did. It was as if Jon was a complete after thought other then Sansa asking where he was, to which she put up zero fight about when told. The people aren't the brightest, I mean Jon rode a dragon and nobody outside of Tyrion or Dany seemed to even take notice to how unusual that was. Tormund saw it and didn't seem to put it together, **** anyone at Winterfell saw it during the fight with the dead and nobody apparently put it together then either. I refuse to give the common folk or even the so called "Lords" any benefit of the doubt as they don't seem too bright.

2. That whole spiel by Tyrion was over dramatic. The worst he did was take off his badge and toss it down the stairs, nobody knew about him letting Jaime free and probably never would have since very few really knew it seems. Logically he distanced himself from the Queen after she decided to go all ballistic on the civilians for no reason, he didn't kill her, so I doubt anyone would have hated him for that. I get it, it was said, but imo it was complete over dramatization.

3. I get what you're saying to a degree regarding Bran but if he can see the future then that means he knew Dany would torch the city and Jon would kill her leaving the throne open for the taking. If he did then he definitely let things play out the way they did for his own personal gain. I just don't see how Bran who accomplished very little and the powers of being the three eyed raven were never really put on full display is somehow a better option then Jon and having strong advisors around him. I feel like I'm arguing points that make no difference and are based on things that didn't happen anyways so I'll leave it alone.

Yea. Im just working with what we've been presented within the scope of the show. Lol

[KG]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

How could the Dothraki and Unsullied not know? They were at the Battle of Winterfell and know the White Walkers were defeated.

.

Yeah I don't buy that part either. I mean is the Night's Watch basically the only jail where they send bad people?

And in regards to them not bringing up Jon being heir or voting him as king...I kinda get that too. At least, I feel you can make sense of it.

Based on their experience with the last two Targaryens, I don't think that the people would be in any rush to get another back on the throne. Lol

On top of that, Tyrion says that half the people hate him because he supported Dany and the other half hate him because he betrayed her. Pretty sure that line of thought would now apply to Jon as well.

Plus we know how much **** Jamie received for being a kingslayer. This despite it being the Mad King...would have to think the same would apply to Jon for killing the Queen.

So it wouldn't be that great of a way to start for ol Johnny as king.

Not to mention the fact that he really hasn't had success as a leader. He pissed people off and lost support at the wall. He pissed people off and lost support in the North. He doesn't really know how to navigate politically. Jon always follows his heart, even to his detriment. And those were small scale jobs compared to being Lord of the seven kingdoms.

So he is a great person yes. But would be a crap ruler based on what we've seen of him.

IDK, everyone in these kingdoms really loved Jon and would ride for him. Multiple people thought he would make a good king. Agreed on the being a bad king part though.

Seasons 1-6 brilliant.

Seasons 7-8 meh.

It is what it is.

I will watch seasons 1-6 again and bath in it’s glory.

And then say to myself....I already know how this will end. And it was not that great.

It was not horrible. But quite anti-climatic.

Two things really stuck out to me.

The way Cerci dies totally stunk. I wanted her to suffer a fantastic death at either Aya’s or Dany’s hand.

I hated how Dany was killed. I loved her and loved her badass destruction of Kings Landing.

Yeah I like me a little evil streak. She was pissed off. Don’t **** with the Mother of Dragons.

Anyway. Wonderful series. Great times.


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I'm the opposite in the sense that Season 8 kind of ruined me rewatching the whole series knowing that it would end this way. I made it to Season 3 of my rewatch before I was couldn't mentally get past how trash this last season has been.

Maybe after a few weeks this will change but I need something to watch at night once the NBA Finals go off lol.

[zanner]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Why does Bran care where the dragon is?

While I'm a little indifferent on the ending overall, I felt odd and weird watching the episode just by the acting and dialogue. It was just corny and rushed and as I watched I couldn't help but think the actors thought the way it was going down was **** and tried their best to act it up and make it meaningful.

It's not the worse - but still after 8 seasons of an otherwise often show I am left feeling like it was pretty bland and like so what...



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[KG]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Why does Bran care where the dragon is?

While I'm a little indifferent on the ending overall, I felt odd and weird watching the episode just by the acting and dialogue. It was just corny and rushed and as I watched I couldn't help but think the actors thought the way it was going down was **** and tried their best to act it up and make it meaningful.

It's not the worse - but still after 8 seasons of an otherwise often show I am left feeling like it was pretty bland and like so what...



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Purely speculation here but maybe Bran is just a little nervous that there’s a possibly vindictive dragon on the loose.


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[NYJets]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Y


I'm the opposite in the sense that Season 8 kind of ruined me rewatching the whole series knowing that it would end this way. I made it to Season 3 of my rewatch before I was couldn't mentally get past how trash this last season has been.

Maybe after a few weeks this will change but I need something to watch at night once the NBA Finals go off lol.

Haha yea I think i want to rewatch a bit of the early seasons just to get the bad taste out of my mouth but I can't do the whole thing again knowing whats to come at the end.

[GAMEC0CK2002]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

So Bran wanted the thrown this whole time and let everything play out? Meh.

The best meme I saw "When you do absolutely nothing on the group project but still get an A"

[DocHolliday]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I stole this but I love it. Was dying.

Tyrion: we will call him Bran the Broken!

bran: just bran Is cool...

Tyrion: Bran the Busted!

Bran: ok, how bout...

Tyrion: Bran the Wheely wheely legs no feely


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[tdawg3782]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

So Bran wanted the thrown this whole time and let everything play out? Meh.

The best meme I saw "When you do absolutely nothing on the group project but still get an A"

I don't think he wanted it like a normal man would. He doesn't seem to care. But out of all people he would be the one who couldn't be influenced but others as a normal person would which in theory should be the best option? I mean sure.

But also the fact that he bugged out of his first meeting within a minute. To me it seems that Tyrion will actually be running the kingdom but since there is no way anybody would have appointed him Bran is the figure head? Maybe that was his master plan? All speculation on my part but I'd like to think that's how it will go down. I like the thought of Tyrion ruling but not ruling and trying to better the realm as him and Varys both wanted.

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[Rocky]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

Man I actually thought this was a decent finale. It's getting absolutely destroyed.

The last scene with Dany and Jon was powerful and well done. Alot of it was great acting by Clarke and Harrington but it made sense. Once Dany recited the "they don't get to choose" line (obviously the reference is Sansa/Arya) then she was pretty much a goner. The dragon thing was a little dumb but it provided some good visuals.

Most of the hate seems to be with the council meeting. Not defending it all the way but these dudes have either seen or heard about the world ending multiple times in a matter of a few months. Two ruling families have essentially been wiped out. I could buy it a little bit.

The happy ending was necessary as well. For the better part of 8 seasons this show has been under the weight of terrible leaders and horrible fates for main characters. The ending needed to let the show breathe a little bit. Everything leading up to it was the problem.

[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

I was just about to say about the same thing.

Like what you said, what made the finale so much more disappointing for many was the rest of the season. If the rest of the episodes had been excellent, this episode would have just felt different. In a good way.

But if you were one of those people who were disappointed in the season leading up to this episode, you were just kind of hoping this episode would rectify most of your grievances. Which it did not...aside from Jon petting Ghost. [emoji23]

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[TMagic]

Re: Game of Thrones: Season 8 (Final season)

IDK, everyone in these kingdoms really loved Jon and would ride for him. Multiple people thought he would make a good king. Agreed on the being a bad king part though. .

The North liked Jon. That's true no doubt. But he was basically a nobody to the other 6 kingdoms. So I'm not sure how that would carry over to the other Kingdoms.