Overwatch

[JODYE]

Re: Overwatch

Still playing this game heavy.

Only frustration is with the people that play this game. I can't understand how people have hundreds of hours invested in this game, and still don't know how to construct a team, or are just flat out awful.

Is it the age demographic that this game appeals to? I just don't get it. I will get in a game where no one picks a healer, or teams that try to run 3 snipers. I understand that people want to try out new characters, but if you want to do that, go to arcade.

That said, looking for people to run Competitive with because I am tired of running solo and getting grouped up with people who don't know how to play as a team. Currently a platinum that mains tanks. Mostly Zarya, Roadhog and Orisa. KD over 4, but would be higher if I could ever run with a good team. If anyone is interested in squading up, add me on PS4: spookyblaylock

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

Still playing this game heavy.

Only frustration is with the people that play this game. I can't understand how people have hundreds of hours invested in this game, and still don't know how to construct a team, or are just flat out awful.

Is it the age demographic that this game appeals to? I just don't get it. I will get in a game where no one picks a healer, or teams that try to run 3 snipers. I understand that people want to try out new characters, but if you want to do that, go to arcade.

That said, looking for people to run Competitive with because I am tired of running solo and getting grouped up with people who don't know how to play as a team. Currently a platinum that mains tanks. Mostly Zarya, Roadhog and Orisa. KD over 4, but would be higher if I could ever run with a good team. If anyone is interested in squading up, add me on PS4: spookyblaylock

Are you seeing this in comp or in quick play, and what skill rating?

I haven't played much comp in a few months, but on PC I don't really remember seeing a lot of terribly constructed teams at the mid Plat level. Quickplay is always anything goes though unfortunately.

That being said, I don't think there is any real answer to your initial question other than some people are just better at games than others. Mechanics and Game knowledge will naturally increase as you play the game, but it will increase faster for some than others. Some people are also starting out at a lower point so they have more catch up to do.

I'll give a personal example. I've played Overwatch since release. Initially I played with 3 other gaming friends of mine. We all have a lot of experience in both FPS and other types of games. We walked into Overwatch with decent FPS mechanics and able to pool knowledge from other games we've played to quickly understand the background mechanics like team comps and counters. The other's stopped playing after a few months, but I can still have conversations with them about various balance changes because they have that "gaming sense".

When they left I joined a 3 RL friends who got the game around September. These guys all have very casual gaming experience overall with very little FPS experience. We play a few nights a week and all have 2 prestige levels working on the 3rd. From a skill level everyone is definitely better, but so are all the other people we've been playing against. They have more game knowledge than they did 6 months ago, but I can still hold a better game balancing discussion with the gaming group that hasn't played since 3 months after the game was released. I'd compare it to traditional sports we follow like basketball and football. I'm sure we all know that guy who has watched football constantly for the last 20 years and still doesn't really know what he is talking about.

As weird as it is to think about, videogame can really be considered an"E-sport", and some people are naturally better/have better understandings than others in any sport. Also, some people just don't care.

[JODYE]

Re: Overwatch

Are you seeing this in comp or in quick play, and what skill rating?

I haven't played much comp in a few months, but on PC I don't really remember seeing a lot of terribly constructed teams at the mid Plat level. Quickplay is always anything goes though unfortunately.

That being said, I don't think there is any real answer to your initial question other than some people are just better at games than others. Mechanics and Game knowledge will naturally increase as you play the game, but it will increase faster for some than others. Some people are also starting out at a lower point so they have more catch up to do.

I'll give a personal example. I've played Overwatch since release. Initially I played with 3 other gaming friends of mine. We all have a lot of experience in both FPS and other types of games. We walked into Overwatch with decent FPS mechanics and able to pool knowledge from other games we've played to quickly understand the background mechanics like team comps and counters. The other's stopped playing after a few months, but I can still have conversations with them about various balance changes because they have that "gaming sense".

When they left I joined a 3 RL friends who got the game around September. These guys all have very casual gaming experience overall with very little FPS experience. We play a few nights a week and all have 2 prestige levels working on the 3rd. From a skill level everyone is definitely better, but so are all the other people we've been playing against. They have more game knowledge than they did 6 months ago, but I can still hold a better game balancing discussion with the gaming group that hasn't played since 3 months after the game was released. I'd compare it to traditional sports we follow like basketball and football. I'm sure we all know that guy who has watched football constantly for the last 20 years and still doesn't really know what he is talking about.

As weird as it is to think about, videogame can really be considered an"E-sport", and some people are naturally better/have better understandings than others in any sport. Also, some people just don't care.

Mostly in Quick Play.

The talent issue was mainly directed towards Quick Play competition. Unfortunately, this game is so damn balanced, not one person can carry a team. I have had numerous games where I end up with 4-5 gold medals and we get slaughtered.

Guys wanting to play Sombra and Hanzo on defense. In general if I see a Hanzo or Widowmaker, I pretty much assume we will lose because in my time with this game, I have seen maybe 4 good Hanzos/Widowmakers. It is just really hard to play on console, yet guys will continue to run them in Comp and it is maddening.

I agree with your 'E-Sports' comment. I didn't want to say that I am just that much better because I am not arrogant in that respect, but maybe that really is the case. Again unfortunately, a solo player can not rise the ranks because the game will punish you if you don't play as a team or if you have a really weak link on the team. Tired of getting stuck on platinum to be honest. Wish they would reward SR based upon contribution to the team rather than wins and losses.

[Speedy]

Re: Overwatch

I don't think you can take quick play seriously. Well, I don't at least...I use it as opportunities to get better with certain characters, not necessarily putting my try hard pants on (sort of speak).

Example...I'm not good with Pharah so even though we may have 2 assaults, I may still pick Pharah as I want to get better with her.

Comp...I don't do that. But quick play I do.

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

Well in QP it's always a crapshoot unfortunately. People don't have anything on the line so sometimes they don't care. Also, some people use QP to practice their off heroes which makes it even more difficult because in QP your teams are largely formed by your background MMR. Well, if you are a Reinhardt main with Diamond level MMR then you will be matched with similar skill players even though you're trying to practice with Genji who you're probably only a "gold" level player with.

With regard to the individual performance it actually is a factor in SR, it's just secondary to W/L. It isn't as much as some want, but it's there. It becomes apparent when the same 6 people queue in competitive and the DPS players rank up faster than the supports. This is probably why it isn't a bigger factor in your rank. How do you track individual performance beyond stats, and in a team based game where there are various roles that are filled how do you measure that one stat is better than another in a given game? IMO this is where the W/L method they use is actually superior to putting additional weight on an individual based performance.

Which brings me to one more point that I find interesting. I actually think that the game does an overall pretty good job of with it's defining a player's skill. It's not without it's own margin of error for sure. However, I have had the luxury (misfortune) of playing quite a few games at every level from the average rank being low silver to low diamond due to the different groups I've played with over time, and I haven't seen many instances where someone with say a 2200 SR probably should have been a high plat/low diamond. The one area the system does fail though, and maybe you are experiencing this, is that it takes so much of what you have done previously into account. So, your skill today is being aggregated against things you did 3 months ago and prior. One group of people I sometimes play with struggled for a long time to hit diamond on their main accounts. They opened new accounts and hit diamond almost instantly and even managed to touch Masters after some time. Though, again here we're only talking a few hundred SR overall.

[JODYE]

Re: Overwatch

Sorry, I meant to say that the talent issue was mainly directed towards competitive play. I understand trying things in quick play, but ultimately I play to win. Generally if I am trying out characters, I go to Arcade and test out stuff there.

I just see a lot of people who are really really bad at this game and I can't understand it. Players that have prestiged 4 or 5 times that are absolutely terrible who are at gold and platinum status, and it is telling me the balance of SR distribution is broken. If we win, and I get 5 gold medals, I should get more SR than the guy who was a DPS player and didn't get any.

And it is more than just the individual talent aspect. It is the inability to make adjustments and play to your strengths. Again, being in competition and seeing Hanzos/Widowmakers (which arguably have no place in competition) who can't hit the broadside of a barn. And as we are getting slaughtered, instead of having the frame of mind to switch characters they continue to be a liability leaving us basically playing 4 or 5 on 6. I understand we are not all equal, but that is the beauty of this game. There is a character for everyone. There are characters where you can affect the game positively, without needing excellent fast twitch skills and hand eye coordination.

Unfortunately as someone who runs solo, being aware of the ramifications, more often then not I get paired with a group of guys/kids that just aren't any good or think they can solo with snipers and it is frustrating, because I am thinking that being at Platinum level, should afford me the opportunity to play with better talent or people that have an overall better grasp of the game. Because at it's core, the game really isn't that hard to understand. Everything has a balance and a counter.

[JODYE]

Re: Overwatch

Well in QP it's always a crapshoot unfortunately. People don't have anything on the line so sometimes they don't care. Also, some people use QP to practice their off heroes which makes it even more difficult because in QP your teams are largely formed by your background MMR. Well, if you are a Reinhardt main with Diamond level MMR then you will be matched with similar skill players even though you're trying to practice with Genji who you're probably only a "gold" level player with.

With regard to the individual performance it actually is a factor in SR, it's just secondary to W/L. It isn't as much as some want, but it's there. It becomes apparent when the same 6 people queue in competitive and the DPS players rank up faster than the supports. This is probably why it isn't a bigger factor in your rank. How do you track individual performance beyond stats, and in a team based game where there are various roles that are filled how do you measure that one stat is better than another in a given game? IMO this is where the W/L method they use is actually superior to putting additional weight on an individual based performance.

Which brings me to one more point that I find interesting. I actually think that the game does an overall pretty good job of with it's defining a player's skill. It's not without it's own margin of error for sure. However, I have had the luxury (misfortune) of playing quite a few games at every level from the average rank being low silver to low diamond due to the different groups I've played with over time, and I haven't seen many instances where someone with say a 2200 SR probably should have been a high plat/low diamond. The one area the system does fail though, and maybe you are experiencing this, is that it takes so much of what you have done previously into account. So, your skill today is being aggregated against things you did 3 months ago and prior. One group of people I sometimes play with struggled for a long time to hit diamond on their main accounts. They opened new accounts and hit diamond almost instantly and even managed to touch Masters after some time. Though, again here we're only talking a few hundred SR overall.

You bring up some interesting points.

First bold: I think there is a real opportunity here to distribute SR by class AND contribution. So if you are a tank, SR distribution focuses on damage blocked, objective time and damage done. If you are a healer, SR is distributed by Objective Time, Healing Done and Defensive Assists, or something to that extent. I am sure you can see where I am going here. I agree you shouldn't be rewarded or punished depending on the class of character you choose, but should based upon how your class SHOULD be affecting the game.

Second bold: Is this really true? If so, that is a real issue. I did used to let my girl play on my account from time to time before I started really taking this game seriously.

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

You bring up some interesting points.

First bold: I think there is a real opportunity here to distribute SR by class AND contribution. So if you are a tank, SR distribution focuses on damage blocked, objective time and damage done. If you are a healer, SR is distributed by Objective Time, Healing Done and Defensive Assists, or something to that extent. I am sure you can see where I am going here. I agree you shouldn't be rewarded or punished depending on the class of character you choose, but should based upon how your class SHOULD be affecting the game.

It's great in theory, but in practice some damage blocked is better than other damage blocked, some healing is better than other healing, and some kills are more important than others. Even in the current system where Individual performance doesn't have a huge impact, my understanding is that you are still being compared against others in your role.

I always point to supports in this argument because they really get the raw end of the deal. Supports have a vital role in the game, but their stats are also very reliant on the rest of their team. If your DPS characters just absolutely knock it out of the park then you probably won't have much healing as a Mercy compared to another Mercy whose team was in a constant struggle. Now, you may have other favorable stats like less deaths, but how does the system really track which was more important? Conversely, you could be an amazing Mercy. Always in the right place, always healing the right people, but if the team around you just falls apart then you're going to constantly be dying (1 bad stat) and you're not going to rack up as many stat metrics because you're always running from spawn.

Lucio's speed boost isn't tracked in the game, but even if it were how much would that really tell you? Lucio's best support ability is his speed. He also has great healing potential though, and how do you balance out what is more important. In a lot of games the speed is more important, but a solo heal Lucio will massively outperform a Lucio who has speed up a lot. If you have an amazing boop at the beginning of a game on lijang tower that knocks 2-3 people off and lets your team get capture the point initially and then your team does a good job holding it then what? You probably had the most importantly play of the game giving your team defensive advantage from the start no matter what other stats you may accrue over the course of the round.

There are just so many variables that go into any single match I would be hesitant to put increased emphasis on whatever stats you may get over the course of a game, even when compared against identical heroes. I will say however, that over time the system would roughly balance out, but I think the same argument can be made for the W/L system.

Second bold: Is this really true? If so, that is a real issue. I did used to let my girl play on my account from time to time before I started really taking this game seriously.

Yeah, I think it's actually more common on console because it's easy to make a new account, but it happens a good bit on PC as well. The people I was playing with were around 2900 SR for most of season 2 almost touching 3K SR for diamond (which they eventually did). They opened new accounts and were diamond after placements. But again, while their 'smurf' account SR was better it wasn't like they were going tier to tier. I think they ended S2 on their mains around SR 3200 and on their smurf's SR 3400.

edit - Also, as of Season 3. Your placement matches don't really mean anything. Your ending SR from the prior season almost entirely defines your starting rank for the new season.

[JODYE]

Re: Overwatch

I'd also venture to guess that those players you talk about generally run in groups and not solo?

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

The one's I personally know run in groups, but I'm sure there are those who do it solo as well.

One thing to remember about groups though is that while the coordination is theoretically better, the game forces those in groups to often player high skill opponents. For instance, if the game can't find another 6 stack to face off against then it will find smaller groups/individuals who have a higher skill to balance it.

Groups of 2 to 3 seem to be the most efficient way of increasing your SR.

[Speedy]

Re: Overwatch

I'm actually liking the new arcade mode. Expert mode is quite difficult.

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

Anyone beat expert mode yet? We've been trying Bastion, Orisa, Torb, Mercy and have only made it to the final sequence.

[Speedy]

Re: Overwatch

I finally did.

Rein, Mercy, Bastian and Soldier...I was Soldier

[mrclutch]

Re: Overwatch

We have been getting destroyed expert Mode. We think we got it then 1234 we are all down.

[Speedy]

Re: Overwatch

I haven't played that kind of co-op mode since MW2...I thoroughly enjoyed it as I didn't get a chance to play Junkenstein's revenge.

I hope they keep this kind of things going as it was really fun and more so, I love how it continued the story of Overwatch.

Blizzard seriously needs to sign a deal with Pixar or something and develop a movie.