"The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

The old run and hide technique. Make a ridiculous claim and everyone else is too stupid to understand.

Either you believe that society is set up to make everyone a winner, or you believe that society is set up to have some people fail. Can't have both. You tell me which side of the fence you're on.

So nobody who kills had a relationship with his parents? Again, there's a lot of money in book deals and lecturing. Go get paid.

More polemics and bombast.

So which is it, elimination or prevention?

It's choosing a better way than what we have right now.



As much as I love discussing civics and morality, I'm going to leave you guys to it. You guys think if the crime is bad enough, vengeance and sadism is worth something. I don't. I know that is part of a cycle. Unless someone brings some new perspective to the discussion, I'll step aside and let you all compare different ways you'd have him be tortured. Enjoy.

[P2K]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

Well, I was educated to somethings new in this thread.



Pompus Assclownery 101, Duck and Dodge Tactics & some AP How To Put Down Others In A Smart Alecky Way.

Basically, dude is calling us bloodthirsty neanderthals typing on keyboards while he is busy being president of MENSA and chuckling at us while sipping on a hot toddy.

In his perfect mindset, he has figured out that educated people won't murder and people being born evil doesn't exist.

Bornindamecca just floats around pointing out people, "You're a moron...you're a moron....aaaaaannnnddd you're a moron!" to anybody that has a vengeful bone in their body.

Basically, the human meatbag is worthless and he would like us all to become robots. Heartless, controlled machines of steel.

In other words, I feel sorry for anyone that knows this guy personally.

[P2K]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

I apologize for the above post. I shouldn't have gone that far with it and I knew it would get reported and I would get some kind of warning. I speak my mind, but there are times when I should just shut it. So, I'm sorry.


But...

That still doesn't mean that we should be put down in a passive aggressive manner, being called weak and slow in the mind and less intelligent, just because we are human and have human feelings. That is why I got so upset.

[Jackdog]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

I apologize for the above post. I shouldn't have gone that far with it and I knew it would get reported and I would get some kind of warning. I speak my mind, but there are times when I should just shut it. So, I'm sorry.


But...

That still doesn't mean that we should be put down in a passive aggressive manner, being called weak and slow in the mind and less intelligent, just because we are human and have human feelings. That is why I got so upset.

I don't see a problem with anything you posted. The elitist that pissed you off has called all of us that don't agree with his opinion idiots and sadists in a very pompus and condescending way. This is a very emotional issue and he played on it. He should be sporting a yellow card as well.

Example:

You should really rethink your sig.

See what I mean? I didn't attack him. I just agreed with someone that didn't fall into his line of thinking. By doing so my intelligence,character and education was attacked in a backhanded way.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

The elitist that pissed you off has called all of us that don't agree with his opinion idiots and sadists in a very pompus and condescending way. This is a very emotional issue and he played on it.

I didn't call anyone anything, or make judgements on anyone's character. That's the opposite of the point that I'm making. The point is: different stimulus can make people act outside of their character. In the case of sadism, sadistic behavior can take a bunch of normal people and turn them into people who call out for more sadism, as it has in this thread. That's not a value judgment on your character, it's an observation of behavior.

See what I mean? I didn't attack him. I just agreed with someone that didn't fall into his line of thinking. By doing so my intelligence,character and education was attacked in a backhanded way.

I suggested you rethink your sig because you agreed with a comment in direct opposition of Dr. King's thinking, not mine. I meant it, and I meant it as literally as possible. I'll repeat it again: rethink your sig. That's not calling you a dummy, or questioning your education. I have no opinion of your character, education or intelligence outside of what you've shown in this thread.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

Don't think I've seen a better wordsmith since Cyrano de Bergerac.

[Jackdog]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

I didn't call anyone anything, or make judgements on anyone's character. That's the opposite of the point that I'm making. The point is: different stimulus can make people act outside of their character. In the case of sadism, sadistic behavior can take a bunch of normal people and turn them into people who call out for more sadism, as it has in this thread. That's not a value judgment on your character, it's an observation of behavior.

Well isn't that sweet of you. I don't recall asking for your observation. And whatever point you claim you were trying to make fell way short of it's mark. All you did was disrespect people and piss them off. My observation. You loved it.

I suggested you rethink your sig because you agreed with a comment in direct opposition of Dr. King's thinking, not mine. I meant it, and I meant it as literally as possible. I'll repeat it again: rethink your sig. That's not calling you a dummy, or questioning your education. I have no opinion of your character, education or intelligence outside of what you've shown in this thread.

I don't recall asking for your suggestion on anything. I like my signature. I agree with it. My education and intelligence tell's me the subject of this thread needs to die. I have the character to say what I feel. It is what it is. I sleep well at night.

As much as I love discussing civics and morality, I'm going to leave you guys to it. You guys think if the crime is bad enough, vengeance and sadism is worth something. I don't. I know that is part of a cycle. Unless someone brings some new perspective to the discussion, I'll step aside and let you all compare different ways you'd have him be tortured. Enjoy.

Follow your own suggestion now. If you have any character at all you'll stick to your word and leave this thread. This is a very emotinonal issue. You have done nothing but try to piss people off with your psycho babble bull****. Unlike most of your posts in this thread,no disrespect intended.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

This is a point I'm not willing to debate. It's a black and white issue that people much smarter than me have figured out a long, long time ago. I've already stated that by education, I don't literally mean school. School is a part of education, but not it's totality, so bringing up the long, long list of college student crime is utterly ridiculous.

There is a bar in this discussion, and the denial of the relationship between education and crime sings beneath that bar.

Born, if you ain't willing to debate it, don't bring it up.

What "education" was lacking here? This guy was never taught strangulation, rape, kidnapping, murder, pedophillia etc, etc was wrong? How does education fix this? If, @ best, the guy was born w/an inherited flaw that drove him to this, then education is not going to fix what's in his DNA. He's got to be put away. Anything towards the other end of the spectrum shows he did this to himself & must take responsibility.

[PVarck31]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

This thread is about 2 seconds from being closed. The personal attacking stops here.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

Born, if you ain't willing to debate it, don't bring it up.

I'm not willing to debate previously proven principles. If we have a discussion of physics, and someone wants to debate gravity, I won't entertain it. Nor will I go out and start rephrasing the Principia Mathematica. Gravity and its mathematics has to be disproved, not proven.

The same applies for cyclical violence patterns, the association with education(again, not to be confused with academics) and violence and the social deficiencies in our culture. These are all well known and well proven ideas that have to be disproved before I start paraphrasing smarter people's established work.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

Well isn't that sweet of you. I don't recall asking for your observation.

Observation is a prerequisite for a dialectic.

All you did was disrespect people and piss them off. My observation. You loved it.

You didn't observe it, you perceived and interpreted it. I haven't slung any insults. The same can't be said for everyone in this thread. If anything, I'm disappointed that people are more interested in defending their instincts for revenge, rather than channeling that energy towards a progressive behavior.

I'd love it if someone thought more about the victims than the malefactor. As for watching people latch onto feelings of revenge, lose the ability to discuss ethics in a reasonable manner without resorting to personal attacks? I don't love that at all. I expect it, but I'm disappointed every single time.

[davin]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

I'm not willing to debate previously proven principles. If we have a discussion of physics, and someone wants to debate gravity, I won't entertain it. Nor will I go out and start rephrasing the Principia Mathematica. Gravity and its mathematics has to be disproved, not proven.

The same applies for cyclical violence patterns, the association with education(again, not to be confused with academics) and violence and the social deficiencies in our culture. These are all well known and well proven ideas that have to be disproved before I start paraphrasing smarter people's established work.

Show the evidence you have for this. I want to see the specific studies and who they are by and so forth. If you want to really get anywhere with your theory, you have to provide evidence. I don't care how correct anybody thinks they are, you would fail a persuasive paper instantly stating that you refuse to even debate the authenticity of your statement.

Really, look at this from the outside of the argument. You are refusing to even debate what you believe, and call others wrong based on what you know and not accepting anything that they believe, even though they have supplied equal amounts of actual information on the case. You can have your opinion, you can think whatever you want. However you keep refrencing that these principles have to be disproven, yet refuse to show any information even talking about these studies you keep referencing. Have you ever judged or partaken in any debate rounds? It is pretty much an instant loss in a debate to refuse sharing any information, no matter how obvious or correct you might think it is. Since you are all in this for the debate it seems, why not show your evidence, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

If you want people to take you seriously, you have to be willing to defend your argument with specifics by experts in the field. Not just "one expert says...", name them, name their principles, show their research. If it is well researched and widely accepted, as you claim, then show it, what do you have to lose? You've already entrentched yourself into this.

The neutral observer should not be swayed by mere "This is correct, I don't need to prove it, it just is, accept it". How is it correct? Who proved it? What was their research? What were their research goals? Are there any possible biases? What does academia at large believe? What are the criticisms of the cases? What are the counterpoints to those criticisms? I'd be happy to look into it, I have access to a lot of academic journals.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

For the link between education and crime? Seriously? Sorry, man. In principle, what you're saying is fine, but I will not sit here and justify the value of education. Especially when the argument is "I know a guy who was a lawyer that (fill in crime here)."

That's ridiculous.

[Beantown]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

For the link between education and crime? Seriously? Sorry, man. In principle, what you're saying is fine, but I will not sit here and justify the value of education. Especially when the argument is "I know a guy who was a lawyer that (fill in crime here)."

That's ridiculous.

All he asked for was the evidence, the studies, the experts...etc, etc...that you claim to have on this subject. He's not asking for you to go into some long discussion, he just wants the proof and the evidence that backs up your point...just as you have been asking for everyone to provide proof against you.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: "The devil is here boy, the devil himself"

All he asked for was the evidence, the studies, the experts...etc, etc...that you claim to have on this subject. He's not asking for you to go into some long discussion, he just wants the proof and the evidence that backs up your point...just as you have been asking for everyone to provide proof against you.

And they haven't. Someone(maybe Cebby) made a statement that I thought was knee jerk, and off of the meter of reason, so I asked him to qualify it. Rather than do that, the response was a mixture of personal insults, and "no, you prove it".

I might not even mind doing that if this wasn't a basic, basic principle tackled in philosophy, civics, psychology, sociology and several other fields, over and over and over again for thousands of years. Bring me something, anything viable that shows that education has no effect on violence, and I'll address that discussion, ridiculous as it is.

Honestly, I don't even understand the inquiry. Are you all really suggesting that education(and yet again, not academics) has no effect on violence?

Or is your stance: "Well, I think education might have an effect on violence, but I don't think you have any evidence for it."