Big Three changes need to start at the top

[dave374]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Yes. Oil and nuclear power are the best energy solutions. Relying on green energy at this point is like sending a 12 year old honors kid to Harvard. At some point, it might be an option, but it's not anywhere near ready.

The problem with that thinking - and I understand where you're coming from - is global warming is real and will have a greater effect on our global economies than the switch from oil/nuclear to green power.
Doing nothing is not an option.
I dread where the world will be in 20 years if this is where our global leadership is going.
As it is, China might destroy the planet with its pollution and sub-standard labour and quality practices anyway.

[bucksfan07]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The problem with that thinking - and I understand where you're coming from - is global warming is real.

is climate change real? Yes. Is man made global warming real? Nope

[bucksfan07]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Dont see how you could have interpreted that from what I wrote.

Look at the posts I was originally responding to in your quote. His plan was that an oil price spike would be good because we'd just switch to green almost instantly.

The problem with that thinking - and I understand where you're coming from - is global warming is real and will have a greater effect on our global economies than the switch from oil/nuclear to green power.

That's not really true at all. Maybe if you buy the "polar ice caps melt" theory, but that won't even come into play for a hundred or so years. The biggest realistic fear of global warming in the near future is water supplies running low in dry areas, but central Africa becoming a ghost region, while disturbing to think about, wouldn't have any effect on our economy.

And switching to green energy right now would literally destroy our state. There would be no power at all. No transportation, no power, no communication. There would be civil war, disease, no medical care, and brutal fighting over control of very limited "green energy".

And nuclear is the solution, not the problem.

Doing nothing is not an option.

Neither is eliminating 100% of our vehicles' power sources and 75-80% of our total power. There is currently no viable alternative for transportation to move from oil.

As it is, China might destroy the planet with its pollution

Which is why I support waging biological warfare on them, killing 75% of their and India's populations.

[yamabushi]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

[/b] is climate change real? Yes. Is man made global warming real? Nope

[dave374]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

[/B] is climate change real? Yes. Is man made global warming real? Nope

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

If I wanted to, I could find 58 webpages insisting Hitler is still alive.

We're the ones spewing crap into the atmosphere - and we're the ones who will pay.

The idea that global warming is not man made is insane.

[KG]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

We can't selectively decide which business get to go on and what businesses get to fail. Either we are socialists with government subsidized industries or we are a free market economy.

The Big 3 are unfortunately a money pit. That $25 Billion will never be repaid to the tax payers.

On the other hand if they just go bankrupt, there are more severe ramifications but they should use that $25 billion to fix the ramifications and move on.

Right, the automobile industry is vital to the economic infrastructure of this company. As the 2nd leading producer of automobiles you cannot just cut out the Big 3 and expect the already struggling economy to not take another hit. Not only are you cutting jobs but you're gonna be forced to outsource to Japan or some other foreign country.

I can understand people's disdain for the mismanagement and lack of foresight by the Big 3 but the long term ramifications of not having a major automobile manufacturer outweight the $25 billion they are asking for in the near future.

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The idea that global warming is not man made is insane.

As is the idea that the earth's temperature hasn't been fluctuating forever.

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

I can understand people's disdain for the mismanagement and lack of foresight by the Big 3 but the long term ramifications of not having a major automobile manufacturer outweight the $25 billion they are asking for in the near future.

The ramifications of letting the Detroit 3 die are almost entirely short term.

[KG]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The ramifications of letting the Detroit 3 die are almost entirely short term.

Assuming that someone purchases them if the bailout doesnt come through for them and they indeed declare for bankrupcy.

[fistofrage]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Assuming that someone purchases them if the bailout doesnt come through for them and they indeed declare for bankrupcy.

That $25 Billion is just a band aid. Their fate has already been sealed. Let the natural course happen. Let them file for bankruptcy and protection. Their successful lines of autos will still come out of it.

HJere's the deal, if the auto industry isn't profitable, it doesn't benefit the country at all. All it is doing is keeping people employed. However, there will always be a need to produce cars domestically and those jobs will be there for those people.

We can't subsidize industries with our tax dollars. Why am I getting taxed for faulty business decisions and greed accross the board from the CEO's down to the button presser that makes $40/hour. Screw them. Yes it will hurt in the short term, but by supporting failure and bad business practices with tax dollars, you are just prolonging the inevitable and allowing people to be rewarded for foolish business practices and greed.

If you want the government to bail them out, then you have to bail out every Bozo with a failed business plan. The more the government takes care of people the less they feel responsible for their actions. Its like business for toddlers, doesn't matter if your business decisions are rotten to the core, everyone gets a cookie. Thats socialism at its finest. Let the people think that no matter what Big Brother wil provide for them.

[fistofrage]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The ramifications of letting the Detroit 3 die are almost entirely short term.

And a sign that the world is coming to an end, I agree with a Cebby statement.

Short term is relative though, probably 15 to 20 years of fairly severe ramifications for Michigan and surrounding area, but you have to let the economy run its course.

Oh and to the person who posted the 100 year graph on global warming. Thats like deciding you live in a rain forest because the 1 second of data you compiled over a 50 year period it happened to be pouring outside.

[mgoblue]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

And a sign that the world is coming to an end, I agree with a Cebby statement.

Short term is relative though, probably 15 to 20 years of fairly severe ramifications for Michigan and surrounding area, but you have to let the economy run its course.

Oh and to the person who posted the 100 year graph on global warming. Thats like deciding you live in a rain forest because the 1 second of data you compiled over a 50 year period it happened to be pouring outside.

Yeah, I wouldn't call it trivial to have the Big 3 fall, but it's not like it would have been 20, 30, 40 years ago. Back then the economy was driven more by the auto industry, now it's not. Yeah, it'll rock the hell out of Michigan, but Michigan's been feeling this for a while, not like the auto industry has been really healthy for 10 years.

[yamabushi]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

....available industry and Labor Department statistics placed the average labor cost for UAW-represented workers at the former DaimlerChrysler at $75.86 per hour. For Ford it was $70.51, he said, and for General Motors it was $73.26.

“That includes the hourly pay, plus the benefits they’re receiving and all the other costs to General Motors, Ford and Chrysler, including legacy costs – retirement costs, pensions, and so on – so it’s looking at the total labor costs per hour worked for workers,” Perry said.

For U.S. workers at Toyota, however, the per hour labor cost is around $47.60, around $43 for Honda and around $42 for Nissan, Perry added, for an average of around $44.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=39499

[superjames1992]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

When I seize power, I will guarantee that there will be no bailouts for anyone.

Make me your Vice President, please.

This disaster has been coming for a long time. We have become a country of spenders, debt, and, in our entire government, corrupt. It's a sad situation. One poster said that the bail out IS coming and I sadly agree. And that will solve n-o-t-h-i-n-g. Unfortunately we need to take our medicine and it might as well be now. This bail out will be a band aid and one that will come off quickly, especially with tax increases looming on the horizon.

Fear is driving us right now. Every day good, honest, hard working Americans wake up and wonder what devastation might be brought to their families. I completely understand this.

It would be nice to hear someone sooth those fears by announcing.

NO TAX INCREASES FOR 2009

NO INCREASES IN GOVERNMENT SPENDING IN 2009

NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX IN 2009

To me that would be a start to help give people some confidence back, but no, our government is at war with itself in that search for power, the American people be damned.

I wasn't going to chime in on this topic, but I'll just agree with this since this is essentially what I believe.

If I wanted to, I could find 58 webpages insisting Hitler is still alive.

We're the ones spewing crap into the atmosphere - and we're the ones who will pay.

The idea that global warming is not man made is insane.

It's insane? But there's no proof that it exists.

The average temperature of the world has remained stationary since about 1998. There was actually a net gain in many glaciers this year, something that hasn't happened in the last twenty or so years. And it just snowed all the way down here in North Carolina on the 34th latitude on November 21st. It's been very cold down here so far.

Is the Earth warmer than it was 50 years ago? Yes. But most of the warming of the twentieth century occurred in from 1900-1950. Also, haven't there been ice ages and heat waves in the past? I believe there are several indicators that the world was once 10 degrees warmer than it currently is. Besides, we are just emerging from the "Little Ice Age", so we should be warming up!

The world's temperature fluctuates!

And here's a kicker! At one time, there was 18 times more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere without humans. Why? Well, it may have something to do with the fact that 96.5% of the carbon dioxide is given off by natural sources, with 0.6% coming from transportation sources and 1% from heating fuels. Volcanoes emit far, far more pollution than mankind. And plants, some microbes, phytoplankton just so happen to emit carbon dioxide.

Also, statistics show that in the past temperature changes has occurred BEFORE the warming occurred. Huh? There is a correlation between carbon dioxide and warming currently, but a correlation is no way to prove something and is unscientific. There could be many things causing global warming and just because carbon dioxide levels are increasing doesn't particularly mean that they are causing the issue.

Besides, there is no point in doing anything since India, China, and other developing countries are pumping out pollution at alarming rates without concern for the environment. We can do all we want to reduce pollution, but it won't matter with developing countries dramatically increasing their pollution outputs.

I think there's a reason for the theory of man-made global warming, but that would make me delve into politics, which I'm not going to do.