Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

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  • MassNole
    Banned
    • Mar 2006
    • 18848

    #151
    Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

    Originally posted by kgx2thez
    There was nothing the public could have done to stop businesses from outsourcing certain jobs. They realized that those jobs could be done for a much lower wage w/o having to pay benefits which ultimately helps drive down the price.

    There are many gov't plans (ARRA) in action to create more jobs but the results are TBD.
    That is not entirely true, regulations and taxes could have easily been put in place that took away the savings from using low cost foreigners at the expense of American jobs. Unions, as much as I despise them, also could have done more to stop jobs from going outside of the country but greed got in the way of that.

    The latter is economic theory that lower production costs create lower prices, but as usual economic theory is as close to real life as a comic book. Instead companies kept prices the same, or even raised them to make a greater profit. From there as corporate greed grew more and more the outsourcing continued to grow more and more and the jobs in the US became fewer and fewer. So now I ask what good does it do to outsource jobs to create unemployment which in turn makes it impossible for people to buy goods? Simple answer is that doesn't even begin to work and now we are feeling the effects as an entire nation.

    This then trickled into other fields where outsourcing never should have been possible. I'll focus on my field of the legal sector. Document review jobs have been sent to India where people who don't speak English, much less say Legal English are reviewing documents to determine their relevance. In an article from the ABA magazine there was a quote where one of these Indian "lawyers" didn't even know what the word Esquire meant. This has since invaded other fields where an advanced education is needed. The downside here is that the ABA has focused their lobbying power towards allowing this to continue, only protecting partners at huge firms while effectively turning their back on 90% of the next generation of lawyers.

    Originally posted by Fluffhead
    As a corporate credit analyst for a publicly traded bank I can tell you that start up business loans are the riskiest in the industry. Most banks are reeling from large losses over the past year on other loans that were deemed acceptable risk at underwriting time and currently do not have an appetite for additional losses. Even with goverment guarantees, the odds are in favor of the bank writing off some portion of the loan. We aren't charities.
    From what I remember in Finance, larger risk equals larger reward. Yes short term it makes sense to make the 3-4% from the government, but this really fails long term has inflation outpaces the rate of return banks get from the government. I'd also wonder how many of those losses came from small business enterprises compared to what came from large corporations with poor business models. If we don't encourage small business now all we are doing is aborting the next Microsoft before it even gets off the ground. Success for the banks in the long run will lie in a balanced portfolio of safe ventures and high risk ventures. With this broken model however as soon as inflation out paces the government interest rates we'll start seeing more banks collapse and have an even bigger problem down the road than we do now. It scares the hell out of me that Ivy Leaguers running these places seem to have forgotten the most basic lessons from Intro to Business.

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    • Fluffhead
      Rookie
      • Jul 2004
      • 246

      #152
      Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

      Originally posted by MassNole
      From what I remember in Finance, larger risk equals larger reward. Yes short term it makes sense to make the 3-4% from the government, but this really fails long term has inflation outpaces the rate of return banks get from the government. I'd also wonder how many of those losses came from small business enterprises compared to what came from large corporations with poor business models. If we don't encourage small business now all we are doing is aborting the next Microsoft before it even gets off the ground. Success for the banks in the long run will lie in a balanced portfolio of safe ventures and high risk ventures. With this broken model however as soon as inflation out paces the government interest rates we'll start seeing more banks collapse and have an even bigger problem down the road than we do now. It scares the hell out of me that Ivy Leaguers running these places seem to have forgotten the most basic lessons from Intro to Business.
      All good points. I was tyring to convey that at this point in time, it shouldn't be expected that banks open up their respective checkbooks and start funding new start ups. As things settle down in the industry, riskier lending will resume and the balance restored. The government has expanded their guarantees on these types of loans, but even with this these types loans just aren't getting done right now.

      Larger risk only means a slightly higher (potentially) reward in the banking industry and startup loans are typically smaller in nature that demand a high volume to achieve profitability. I'm interested in seeing how much the government has paid the banks for all of these small / startup loans that they're having to pay on as businesses shut down. At my bank alone it's a really large figure.

      Excessive lending is in part what got us in this mess and what our country is built upon...a mountain of debt. There's going to be a long correction period with little to no growth, no doubt, but going back to the ways of lending to anybody with a plan cannot continue.

      Comment

      • p_rushing
        Hall Of Fame
        • Feb 2004
        • 14514

        #153
        Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

        Originally posted by Fluffhead
        Excessive lending is in part what got us in this mess and what our country is built upon...a mountain of debt. There's going to be a long correction period with little to no growth, no doubt, but going back to the ways of lending to anybody with a plan cannot continue.
        Yep and hopefully this makes people understand they should only buy what they can afford, that everyone can't afford to own a home, and credit cards should be paid off or used for emergencies only.



        For the outsourcing, in the IT industry, it is continuing, but its also starting to hurt the companies. Many that I've consulted at are seeing the effects of trying to shift things offshore to lower costs. Many of them see that the overall costs are down in that area, but it is costing them quality, causing mistakes, slowing down processes, and putting too much stress on their onshore employee's. Some of them are moving certain things back to the US.

        Most of the Indian workers do not have a brian of their own. They cannot think for themselves and solve problems without you telling them and documenting the solution. If they are able to do this, they don't waste their time staying in India, they come to the US.

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        • KG
          Welcome Back
          • Sep 2005
          • 17583

          #154
          Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

          Originally posted by p_rushing


          For the outsourcing, in the IT industry, it is continuing, but its also starting to hurt the companies. Many that I've consulted at are seeing the effects of trying to shift things offshore to lower costs. Many of them see that the overall costs are down in that area, but it is costing them quality, causing mistakes, slowing down processes, and putting too much stress on their onshore employee's. Some of them are moving certain things back to the US.
          For the Call Center industry this was definitely the case but advances in technology (IVR, VOIP, etc...) are bringing the work back closer to home and for a better price in the long run.
          Twitter Instagram - kgx2thez

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          • Jukeman
            Showtime
            • Aug 2005
            • 10955

            #155
            Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

            I wish this thread was made about a year ago...

            Really got me thinking....I should've went to school for audio engineering Instead of business....


            Maybe its not too late

            Comment

            • USF11
              C*rr*ntly *n L*f* T*lt
              • Jun 2003
              • 4245

              #156
              Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

              Originally posted by Jukeman
              I wish this thread was made about a year ago...

              Really got me thinking....I should've went to school for audio engineering Instead of business....


              Maybe its not too late
              I wish this thread was 10 years ago, so I woulda actually cared in high school. My friend is an audio engineer and he pulls in 75 dollars a nite doing karokee.....lol
              "Good music transcends all physical limits, it's more then something you hear, it's something that you feel, when the author, experience, and passion is real" - Murs (And this is for)

              Comment

              • Jukeman
                Showtime
                • Aug 2005
                • 10955

                #157
                Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

                Originally posted by USF11
                I wish this thread was 10 years ago, so I woulda actually cared in high school. My friend is an audio engineer and he pulls in 75 dollars a nite doing karokee.....lol
                Tell me about it...

                I was just looking at Drexel University and they have a B.S. Music Industry/MBA program which is perfect for me because I could learn the art of mixing/mastering AND the business side of the world SMH....

                For regular students(guys thats not a 3.5-4.0gpa; which you HAVE to have to get accepted in the Music Industry/MBA program) Drexel has the standard Music Industry program where they also have a co-op program where they will get you employed for 6months in your area of study(basically anywhere in/outside of Philly) and its mandatory to graduate!!!!


                Aw man, I wish I had a time machine.....I would have been in my books heavy during high school....
                Last edited by Jukeman; 01-22-2010, 02:05 PM.

                Comment

                • Qb
                  All Star
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 8797

                  #158
                  Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

                  Originally posted by aholbert32
                  Exactly. People who state different are either using outdated talking points from the 80s (those talking points led to many of the changes in the welfare system) or have never actually interacted with people on assistance. Its increasingly more difficult to cheat the system with job, school and time limitations.
                  I have to interact with Welfare in Allegheny County, PA on a regular basis for my job. Mostly I have to send enrollment/attendance verifications for people to get transportation or childcare assistance to come to our school, both for GED and career training classes. The CAO recently changed a lot of policies to combat fraudulent benefit claims, but of course, no system is perfect.

                  I'm sure people still slip through the cracks and get benefits when they shouldn't be, just some who are doing what they're supposed to do don't get their assistance on time or get an endless run around every month. A lot of it comes down to people doing their jobs and paperwork. I know caseworkers are overloaded and I know mistakes happen, but usually when someone "gets over" it's because the follow-up comes too late. I can tell when they're likely auditing, because I'll get a ton of "I was just calling to check up on..." phone calls, often regarding students who never attended or only came briefly to get documentation. Now they should've been busted when there was no attendance verification, but again, human factors come into play...

                  I can say that at least here and in my interaction with both DPW and its clients, the days of people just getting a "welfare check" are pretty much over. They get money assigned for specific types of assistance and must provide receipt of a monthly bus pass purchase or daycare payment (or so the policy states). As someone already stated, food stamps are often restricted as well. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only way someone is getting public assistance monies they could spend freely -- ie, on drugs/alcohol/videogames -- would be SSI/disability. And even that might be monitored to some degree, but I'm not sure...

                  Comment

                  • USF11
                    C*rr*ntly *n L*f* T*lt
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 4245

                    #159
                    Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

                    Come to think of it drop outs have nothing to do with killing the economy. The percentage of money spent on social programs (IS STILL A COMPLETE WASTE OF TAX DOLLARS) is minimial to to money spent in other area.

                    Lack of jobs killed the economy. People dont have money to spend or invest. Which creates a vicious cycle.....unskilled labor, dropouts, really is have the effect of a throwing a rock in an ocean.
                    Last edited by USF11; 01-25-2010, 05:31 PM.
                    "Good music transcends all physical limits, it's more then something you hear, it's something that you feel, when the author, experience, and passion is real" - Murs (And this is for)

                    Comment

                    • Schism 6
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 360

                      #160
                      Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

                      Exactly, cause even people who have degrees can't find jobs, with all the dropouts you think it'd be easy, according to to original OP....
                      Last edited by Schism 6; 01-25-2010, 05:59 PM.

                      Comment

                      • ManiacMatt1782
                        Who? Giroux!
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 3982

                        #161
                        Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

                        Originally posted by p_rushing
                        This wont end well, but I'll keep my comments as bland as possible.

                        You cannot just simply provide money without any requirements from the party receiving them. Some of the problems are with the rules, such as if you get a job, you lose most of your benefits, when the job isn't paying enough so you don't get one because you get more not having a job. Other problems are with the people that just want to be free loaders.

                        The programs should be designed to give people a hand up, not a handout. I would rather give someone who needs help and is willing to work and doing anything they can to improve them self 2-3 times the amount given to someone who is able to work, but does nothing.

                        I'll stop there because going any further will get me banned for a while.
                        I agree with this 1000%, but i also think the physically disables should be helped out, if you physically cant work, thats just the hand you were dealt, and you should be able to get some assistance.
                        www.twitch.tv/maniacmatt1228
                        www.youtube.com/maniacmatt1782

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