Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

[aholbert32]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

not to mention access cards....I dont think drug dealers take credit...

Like you said, this isnt the 80's TV is outdated....

Besides, there are people in business suits who abused drugs every day........

Most people who are recieving "goverment cheese" arent drug addicts...

If they are, more than likely they are getting the money from something else..

Now days(actually dont know how it worked backed then) you have requirements(working, in school,) to get section 8 housing(Philadelphia)

Exactly. People who state different are either using outdated talking points from the 80s (those talking points led to many of the changes in the welfare system) or have never actually interacted with people on assistance. Its increasingly more difficult to cheat the system with job, school and time limitations.

[aholbert32]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

Don't forget towns like Haverhill and North Andover that got hit just as hard with those relocations. Not to mention the overcrowding that instantly occurred in those public schools without tax revenue to offset the increase. I know in Haverhill they had to open up a brand new high school to help a specific demographic of those transfers.

Growing up in Vermont I saw first hand how bad it could get quickly. Prior to taking in numerous castoffs from other large cities there was no gang activity. Within a year Rutland was overrun with a turf war between the Latin Kings and another rival gang. Fortunately the epicenter of Vermont (Burlington area) managed to keep the problem at bay by basically engaging in unconstitutional behavior as a municipality. That said the tough decision kept Burlington as one of the nicest cities and best places to live in the US.

What was the unconstitutional behavior?

[MassNole]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

The powers that be (of which I had major inside information on FWIW) did what they felt was necessary to keep the city around 98% Caucasian by denying many vouchers from public housing of those outside that demographic. Despite public housing actually being available, numerous people were turned away and sent to Rutland.

People generally don't realize this because well its Vermont, but VT is actually a very, very racist state.

[USF11]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

Lets get this ship away from the politics before our thread gets locked.

The USA lost 20% of its jobs over a two year stretch and now its a scramble to create new jobs.

The biggest problem is ..........Banks dont have money to loan to Small Business.....Small Business no longer fills the void...........economy's future becomes uncertain...........


Despite the bounce we saw in the stock market last year, things are going to get worse before they get better, it may take 15-20 years to fix this mess.

Just wait to the way of Foreclosers hits people who have jobs..its gonna happen. \

Or people like me with 50k in student loans with no means in site to start paying it back, and the option of adding a second degree is going to have to come out of my own pocket.

[JBH3]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

You need to come with something better than that. I have several family members in social services (Feds and State) and they have seen both sides of it. Many misue it and many use it the right way. I still wouldnt base my opinion solely on what their individual experiences are. Also, I dont know how a teacher would know whether people are using welfare for drugs other than stories she's heard from students. I've heard stories of welfare misuse too but not enough to make broad statements like you have.

I don't have to convince you of anything. I'm not here to do that. As far as my wife is considered. Students confide in her. One in particular, a female sophmore student, confided in her about how her mom doesn't work, collects welfare and unemployment, and spends some portion of state/federal aide that she receives monterarily on drugs. This particular student father was in jail for drugs, brother was a drug addict AND tried to committ suicide in her presence, and her mom abuses her yet keeps her around as a dependent for the tax/govt. aide benefit.

Yet...I have no bearing in this conversation?

EDIT: Forgot to add that this particular student's mother would not allow her to participate in Job Corps because doing so would jeopardize whatever subsidiary the state/fed govt. gives her. So she cannot even better herself because her parent has become complacent thanks to govt. programs which breed complacency more than anything. It will only be a matter of time before she becomes yet another statistic, gets pregnant, and then the vicious cycle repeats itself (if it hasn't happened already because I think she dropped out).

[MassNole]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

Lets get this ship away from the politics before our thread gets locked.

Slightly OT, I am shocked at the level of maturity this thread has shown. When I posted the story I thought it would provide for some discussion but I am actually surprised how good it has been. Congrats OSers!!!!

The USA lost 20% of its jobs over a two year stretch and now its a scramble to create new jobs.

The biggest problem is ..........Banks dont have money to loan to Small Business.....Small Business no longer fills the void...........economy's future becomes uncertain...........


Despite the bounce we saw in the stock market last year, things are going to get worse before they get better, it may take 15-20 years to fix this mess.

Just wait to the way of Foreclosers hits people who have jobs..its gonna happen. \

Or people like me with 50k in student loans with no means in site to start paying it back, and the option of adding a second degree is going to have to come out of my own pocket.

I have had a nasty habit of graduating into recessions, first in 2001 and then again in 2008. What is sad for me is the amount of money lending institutions received to help give them more money to loan out, primarily for small business ventures, that instead goes to large corporations and from there more often than not right outside of the country.

We need to realize how necessary it is to create working class jobs in America. For a long time we sat idly back while these jobs disappeared because it didn't effect "us". From there it grew like a cancer and slowly these jobs started creeping into other sectors. One surprising area is the legal field, where document review jobs were outsourced to foreign countries. Now this wave is hitting everyone but the upper class, who will almost always be insulated from these problems. If we were able to create more working class jobs then this would again begin to trickle to other fields and parts of the economy. As such it would give people an increased reason to at least finish their High School education because there is something to look forward to.

[aholbert32]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

I don't have to convince you of anything. I'm not here to do that. As far as my wife is considered. Students confide in her. One in particular, a female sophmore student, confided in her about how her mom doesn't work, collects welfare and unemployment, and spends some portion of state/federal aide that she receives monterarily on drugs. This particular student father was in jail for drugs, brother was a drug addict AND tried to committ suicide in her presence, and her mom abuses her yet keeps her around as a dependent for the tax/govt. aide benefit.

Yet...I have no bearing in this conversation?

EDIT: Forgot to add that this particular student's mother would not allow her to participate in Job Corps because doing so would jeopardize whatever subsidiary the state/fed govt. gives her. So she cannot even better herself because her parent has become complacent thanks to govt. programs which breed complacency more than anything. It will only be a matter of time before she becomes yet another statistic, gets pregnant, and then the vicious cycle repeats itself (if it hasn't happened already because I think she dropped out).

I guess what bothers me is that you make broad statements based on your wife's interaction with her students. Your wife's student's situation is a shame and there are many with similar situations. There are millions of americans on some form of welfare assistance and there are people that cheat the system.

Does that mean the system is broken? No. Does that mean that the government should implement new requirements (like drug tests) that could hurt more families and drop them further into poverty? No.

What kills me is that most of the people who scream for new welfare requirements will be the first ones complaining when the child of one of those former welfare mothers robs you because they cant eat. They were eating fine until their mother lost her food stamps because of a positive weed test.

[Jukeman]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

I don't have to convince you of anything. I'm not here to do that. As far as my wife is considered. Students confide in her. One in particular, a female sophmore student, confided in her about how her mom doesn't work, collects welfare and unemployment, and spends some portion of state/federal aide that she receives monterarily on drugs. This particular student father was in jail for drugs, brother was a drug addict AND tried to committ suicide in her presence, and her mom abuses her yet keeps her around as a dependent for the tax/govt. aide benefit.

Yet...I have no bearing in this conversation?

EDIT: Forgot to add that this particular student's mother would not allow her to participate in Job Corps because doing so would jeopardize whatever subsidiary the state/fed govt. gives her. So she cannot even better herself because her parent has become complacent thanks to govt. programs which breed complacency more than anything. It will only be a matter of time before she becomes yet another statistic, gets pregnant, and then the vicious cycle repeats itself (if it hasn't happened already because I think she dropped out).

why not call DHS or whatever its called???

Thats ONE person...Most likely she is trading off her "benefits" for cash(offer a food shopping spree for cash for less money than the person would spend at the market)

She is taking advantage of the benefits and unless someone calls social service on her arse, its gonning to continue....

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

We need to realize how necessary it is to create working class jobs in America. For a long time we sat idly back while these jobs disappeared because it didn't effect "us". From there it grew like a cancer and slowly these jobs started creeping into other sectors. One surprising area is the legal field, where document review jobs were outsourced to foreign countries. Now this wave is hitting everyone but the upper class, who will almost always be insulated from these problems. If we were able to create more working class jobs then this would again begin to trickle to other fields and parts of the economy. As such it would give people an increased reason to at least finish their High School education because there is something to look forward to.

Super bingo.

[USF11]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

We need to realize how necessary it is to create working class jobs in America. For a long time we sat idly back while these jobs disappeared because it didn't effect "us". From there it grew like a cancer and slowly these jobs started creeping into other sectors. One surprising area is the legal field, where document review jobs were outsourced to foreign countries. Now this wave is hitting everyone but the upper class, who will almost always be insulated from these problems. If we were able to create more working class jobs then this would again begin to trickle to other fields and parts of the economy. As such it would give people an increased reason to at least finish their High School education because there is something to look forward to.

100% Right!

Banks are so frigid and greedy that they havent lended money the past two years to create those new business.

Its like being a farmer and not planting any seeds.

[KG]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

We need to realize how necessary it is to create working class jobs in America. For a long time we sat idly back while these jobs disappeared because it didn't effect "us". From there it grew like a cancer and slowly these jobs started creeping into other sectors. One surprising area is the legal field, where document review jobs were outsourced to foreign countries. Now this wave is hitting everyone but the upper class, who will almost always be insulated from these problems. If we were able to create more working class jobs then this would again begin to trickle to other fields and parts of the economy. As such it would give people an increased reason to at least finish their High School education because there is something to look forward to.

There was nothing the public could have done to stop businesses from outsourcing certain jobs. They realized that those jobs could be done for a much lower wage w/o having to pay benefits which ultimately helps drive down the price.

There are many gov't plans (ARRA) in action to create more jobs but the results are TBD.

[p_rushing]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

100% Right!

Banks are so frigid and greedy that they havent lended money the past two years to create those new business.

Its like being a farmer and not planting any seeds.

Banks want to make money, they aren't there to give away money. Banks aren't lending to small businesses because they can make more lending to the government and its guaranteed. The loan to the small business is risky and they probably won't be able to get their money back if they default. Lending to the government, they get 3-4% with no risks. Which one would you lend to?

[Fluffhead]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

100% Right!

Banks are so frigid and greedy that they havent lended money the past two years to create those new business.

Its like being a farmer and not planting any seeds.

As a corporate credit analyst for a publicly traded bank I can tell you that start up business loans are the riskiest in the industry. Most banks are reeling from large losses over the past year on other loans that were deemed acceptable risk at underwriting time and currently do not have an appetite for additional losses. Even with goverment guarantees, the odds are in favor of the bank writing off some portion of the loan. We aren't charities.

[USF11]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

As a corporate credit analyst for a publicly traded bank I can tell you that start up business loans are the riskiest in the industry. Most banks are reeling from large losses over the past year on other loans that were deemed acceptable risk at underwriting time and currently do not have an appetite for additional losses. Even with goverment guarantees, the odds are in favor of the bank writing off some portion of the loan. We aren't charities.

Right!

I dont disagree with anything your saying or the poster above you, but new jobs have to be created somewhere......and you cant count on major corporations who are downsizing to step up and create new jobs.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Drop Outs are Killing the Economy

A wife who's a teacher and a mom who's a social services supervisor. Both have seen the system grossly take advantage of.

I'm not denying that it happens but I don't think the majority of people on welfare are spending their welfare money on drugs.