Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I can understand that but I hope that the protocol for stopping a bike is different than the protocol of stopping a car. As for the hands he didn't even need to see them. The bike was moving so the guy had to have his hands on the bike.

I think the protocol is for traffic stops. That's what every officer has said here.

I get that you don't agree with how this was done, but why continue asking questions about something that is taught to them? You're trying to break down actions that are allowed by their protocol. It's a circular argument that shouldn't be one because an answer was already given. You're just asking to ask at this point.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Because its not against the law to unholster your weapon when making a traffic stop. If the officer felt he needed to then that's why he did it.

And your second question is just plain ridiculous.

Well since there's so much debate about excessive force in this situation i doubt the law is that clear cut.

You're the one that said that maybe he thought the biker would flee. That would be the only reason you'd spend time pulling a gun when you could be getting back in your car. And the biker getting shot in the back thing has happened before

[PVarck31]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Well since there's so much debate about excessive force in this situation i doubt the law is that clear cut.

You're the one that said that maybe he thought the biker would flee. That would be the only reason you'd spend time pulling a gun when you could be getting back in your car. And the biker getting shot in the back thing has happened before

You misunderstood what I was saying. Pulling the gun could be used as a tactic to keep someone from fleeing. Not to shoot him in the back if he does.

I can't speak on bikers being shot in the back, I have never heard of a case like that. Not saying it hasn't happened, I have just never heard of it, so i will not comment on it.

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Focusing on the bold.

1. It's no longer last resort when it's protocol. Several officers here have already said so. I'm really having a hard time understanding why anyone is arguing with protocol. The guy didn't break any so why continue asking this question or making this statement? Best solution is to go to the decision makers and ask them why this is a protocol rather than incriminating someone for an action that was warranted by their education.

2. Even if the percentage is small, you think anyone wants to be those 101 officers?

I was not aware it was protocol, I will just leave it at that then.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

You never shoot anyone unless they pose an imminent threat or deadly force towards you or another person. If the person flees and that imminent threat does not exist, you do not discharge a firearm at the person.

I'm curious to hear what you think causes a need to unholster a firearm.

I just asked that question since he said that the fleeing biker might be a threat that called for pulling a gun.

As I said before, if there's a situation that clearly presents a threat such as a stop of a car where someone could have a shotgun sitting out of the window or had their hands in a concealed place. I think it was totally inappropriate since the guy was on a bike with his hands in plain view

I think the protocol is for traffic stops. That's what every officer has said here.

I get that you don't agree with how this was done, but why continue asking questions about something that is taught to them? You're trying to break down actions that are allowed by their protocol. It's a circular argument that shouldn't be one because an answer was already given. You're just asking to ask at this point.

An officer has not chimed in on the issue of motorcycle protocol vs car protocol yet.

[JBH3]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

If you can't say why there was a threat that made it necessary to pull a gun how can you say that this guy wasn't wrong to do so?

And if that biker did flee do you really shoot him in the back?

Had these cops had their firearm pulled maybe it woud've deterred the would be cop-killer?

Maybe the officer w/ his gun drawn made the motorist think twice about doing anything had he been ready to get violent.

Two Florida Officers Killed in the Line of Duty

I say most of those opposing the idea of the cop having their firearm pointed "Alert to the dirt" (pointed down) don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[tsalbysp]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I disagree that unholstering a gun is a use of force.

That is because YOU'RE the one doing the unholstering.

If I am pulled over, and I see a cop take out his gun, my *** will be in full-on clenched mode.

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I was not aware it was protocol, I will just leave it at that then.

That's what I'm understanding from the officers here.

I think a fair question to ask from your side is: "Why is this protocol?" Or "Shouldn't there be another way to avoid making this the protocol?"

Because I can understand that side. I'm not sure if I agree with the protocol yet - though, I do understand why it is one considering the increasing danger of what should be a routine traffic stop - because I do think there has to be another way to prevent making the innocent feel guilty or threatened.

I'm just not sure what that way is when officers have had their alarms on high because of the increasing number of deaths. It's difficult to say find another solution when that party feels that they might be in danger.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

You misunderstood what I was saying. Pulling the gun could be used as a tactic to keep someone from fleeing. Not to shoot him in the back if he does.

I can't speak on bikers being shot in the back, I have never heard of a case like that. Not saying it hasn't happened, I have just never heard of it, so i will not comment on it.

Okay sorry about that. I don't know about anyone else but for me pulling a gun would be even more reason for me to flee. Just fight or flight response.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Had these cops had their firearm pulled maybe it woud've deterred the would be cop-killer?

Maybe the officer w/ his gun drawn made the motorist think twice about doing anything had he been ready to get violent.

Two Florida Officers Killed in the Line of Duty

I say most of those opposing the idea of the cop having their firearm pointed "Alert to the dirt" (pointed down) don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Honestly even though I think that in traffic stops involving cars it is acceptable to have a firearm drawn I think that it's a false sense of security. A guy sitting in a car waiting for the cops to come is more ready to fire than a cop creeping up to a car and in that situation I think a gun would do more to escalate the situation than diffuse it

[PVarck31]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Okay sorry about that. I don't know about anyone else but for me pulling a gun would be even more reason for me to flee. Just fight or flight response.

I obviously don't know you, but I think if you were in that situation with a gun drawn on you, and were told to freeze, you would freeze.

[PVarck31]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Honestly even though I think that in traffic stops involving cars it is acceptable to have a firearm drawn I think that it's a false sense of security. A guy sitting in a car waiting for the cops to come is more ready to fire than a cop creeping up to a car and in that situation I think a gun would do more to escalate the situation than diffuse it

This is why a cop tells you to put your hands and 10 and 2 from a distance, usually around your gas tank. Or your rear bumper.

[PVarck31]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

And guys, please understand that the last thing 99.99999999999% of cops want to do is shoot you.

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Honestly even though I think that in traffic stops involving cars it is acceptable to have a firearm drawn I think that it's a false sense of security. A guy sitting in a car waiting for the cops to come is more ready to fire than a cop creeping up to a car and in that situation I think a gun would do more to escalate the situation than diffuse it

Exactly, if you pull your gun every time, that will not protect you. complacency kills

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

And people, please understand that the last thing 99.99999999999% of cops want to do is shoot you.

This is true, but the more you draw your weapon, the chances of a Negligent Discharges increase, just look at that Oakland cop