Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

[Pokes]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I don't see anything wrong with what the officer did. The only thing I think that might have made the situaion better would be to have the uniformed officer perform the traffic stop. In Houston they had a few incidents in recent past of people pretended to be police officers, so I'd probably be suspicious of an unmarked car as well.

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I don't see anything wrong with what the officer did.

You only pull your gun when you feel your life is threatened. Simple as that, no other explanation is needed. If this cop felt his life was threatened, fine, but with all the Information that has been released about this, I cannot see how he was scared.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Again many police officers have been shot in what they thought were "non threatening" situations.
Times have changed and so have SOP's. Root cause.. an ******* on a bike.

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

You only pull your gun when you feel your life is threatened. Simple as that, no other explanation is needed. If this cop felt his life was threatened, fine, but with all the Information that has been released about this, I cannot see how he was scared.

I strongly disagree with your opinion of when to unholster your firearm.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Again many police officers have been shot in what they thought were "non threatening" situations.
Times have changed and so have SOP's. Root cause.. an ******* on a bike.

Again the argument here is because of these two things

1. The motorcycle is wide open and the drive had his hands on the bike for the whole time
2. There is no way that the guy could draw a gun in the time that it took that cop to cover the distance between the car and the bike.

I think the response would've been different from these guys if this was a car where you couldn't see this guys hands or you could have a firearm sitting in the glove compartment. Though you talk about cops getting shot I have yet to see a scenario where a guy was on a bike with his hands in plain visibility. As far as I know of most of those situations involved cars with guns in glove compartment or under seats and not guys on bikes. In this particular situation i see no reason for the officer to pull his gun though I don't think he should be sanctioned because he did

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I dont see how anyone here can defend this cop. Anyone ever heard of escalation of force, This cop certainly never has...

Why does every cop on here feel the need to defend or justify everything these knucklehead cops do.I back up cops 99% of the time, my Family are all cops, but I can take the blinders off and see there are a few people out there that should not have been cops. I was in the Army when Abu Ghraib happened, I could not defend those people because the were wrong. Sometimes you just have to be impartial and say they are wrong.

I am aware of the use of force continuum, and the Officer did not use any force in this traffic stop.

Please explain what you mean with "escalation of force"? Could you explain how the Officer violated this?

Thank you

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

What does #2 even mean?

Every traffic stop is recorded anyways, so you can request a copy of it in court. Our system goes back a full minute (visual) before the camcorder was turned on. It's digital and constantly recording, but only saves when prompted.

Policy is to have the recorder on, so to have it off would cost an Officer his job or some type of disciplinary action. Not to mention the case would easily get thrown out in court.

The car was very close to the bike. Unless that guy had a gun already drawn which the cop could clearly see that he didn't since the guys hands were on the bike, it would be entirely impossible for that guy to draw a gun in the time that it took the cop to open the door and get to the bike


I'd still carry my own dashcam. I wouldn't trust a cop with a potentially incriminating film on his cam to keep it as it was during the incident. And it's not just law enforcement. It's just because people generally hold self preservation in high regard

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Again the argument here is because of these two things

1. The motorcycle is wide open and the drive had his hands on the bike for the whole time
2. There is no way that the guy could draw a gun in the time that it took that cop to cover the distance between the car and the bike.

Action beats reaction. The Officer took a precautionary step for some reason. Personally, I'm curious why he did unholster his firearm.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Action beats reaction. The Officer took a precautionary step for some reason. Personally, I'm curious why he did unholster his firearm.

Are you just arguing against the people that think he was wrong due to the generalizations of cops and talk of warzones or what?

Just wondering.

[PVarck31]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19451-police-officer-joshua-t.-miktarian

Ask this mans wife and daughter if he should have unholstered his weapon during this "routine" traffic stop. Because if he did, he would most likely be alive today.

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

The car was very close to the bike. Unless that guy had a gun already drawn which the cop could clearly see that he didn't since the guys hands were on the bike, it would be entirely impossible for that guy to draw a gun in the time that it took the cop to open the door and get to the bike


I'd still carry my own dashcam. I wouldn't trust a cop with a potentially incriminating film on his cam to keep it as it was during the incident. And it's not just law enforcement. It's just because people generally hold self preservation in high regard

I stongly disagree with the "the motorcycle was too close to pose any threat" argument.

Are you stating the Officer should be able to get out of his car and detain somebody who is drawing a firearm or weapon? Officers practice Officer safety, which includes being proactive in self-defense. The Officer did not threaten the motorcycle driver with the weapon. He unholstered the weapon, accessed the situation fully and when he felt everything was secure he holstered the weapon.

I agree that people hold self preservation in high regard, as it's the core of survival.

Officers do not have access to the video that is recorded. Any time you turn on your lights, a video is recorded. Only a supervisor has access to the memory card for the video.

If you think an Officer can simply erase some portion of video you are incorrect in thinking so.

Also, if an Officer were to turn off a video recording while the traffic stop was still ongoing, that would be a violation of policy.

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19451-po...a-t.-miktarian

Ask this mans wife and daughter if he should have unholstered his weapon during this "routine" traffic stop. Because if he did, he would most likely be alive today.

I am so sick and tired of people who know nothing about law enforcement making comments about what they think they know. Go to your local learning annex and take a class then get back to me.

This generally results in "OMG he pulled out a gun! Why did he do that? No gun was pointed at him!" instead of seeing why the Officer took the action he did.

I do not fault people for taking this point of view, because it stems from their lack of knowledge about LEO practices.

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I am aware of the use of force continuum, and the Officer did not use any force in this traffic stop.

Please explain what you mean with "escalation of force"? Could you explain how the Officer violated this?

Thank you

Escalation of Force is pretty simple, it basically means you counter the force of an individual with equal or greater force. For example, Someone wants to fist fight you, so you grab a Pepper Spray. Someone has a Bat, so you use your Taser. Someone has a Knife, you pull your gun.

Pulling a gun is considered using force because it is meant to intimidate. This Cop obviously was not in imminent danger, Worst case scenario is the Biker pulls away and avoids arrest, this is still not cause to shoot him. When you pull your Gun, you better be ready to use it.

Think of it this way, you see a Biker doing 120+ on the highway, you see him at a red light. You have every right to make a citizens arrest if you have proper evidence. You tell this biker you are making a Citizens arrest and he does not resist, can you pull a gun on him?

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

http://www.odmp.org/officer/19451-po...a-t.-miktarian

Ask this mans wife and daughter if he should have unholstered his weapon during this "routine" traffic stop. Because if he did, he would most likely be alive today.

Yea and my Buddy got blown to pieces in Iraq, does that mean he should have shot everyone with a Cell Phone?(its a common detonating device)

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I stongly disagree with the "the motorcycle was too close to pose any threat" argument.

Are you stating the Officer should be able to get out of his car and detain somebody who is drawing a firearm or weapon? Officers practice Officer safety, which includes being proactive in self-defense. The Officer did not threaten the motorcycle driver with the weapon. He unholstered the weapon, accessed the situation fully and when he felt everything was secure he holstered the weapon.

I agree that people hold self preservation in high regard, as it's the core of survival.

Officers do not have access to the video that is recorded. Any time you turn on your lights, a video is recorded. Only a supervisor has access to the memory card for the video.

If you think an Officer can simply erase some portion of video you are incorrect in thinking so.

Also, if an Officer were to turn off a video recording while the traffic stop was still ongoing, that would be a violation of policy.

Ok, I'll state my argument in a simpler way

1. It's pretty obvious that the bikers hands are on the bike since he was backing up
2. This was happening while the officer was opening the door to his car
3. The officer could see this
4. The cyclist couldn't pull a gun in that amount of time since the car was right in front of the bike and it was obvious that he didn't have one previously
5. The officer had no reason to pull a gun

Yes I understand that there are things in protocol to prevent against things like that. I'm just saying that I don't trust people in general to follow said protocol if there's something bad on those tapes thus I'd carry my own. Just being "proactive"