Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

And how many times did you actually have to use it?
.

This isn't the best defense for your argument.

It only takes one mistake, one person not following protocol to end up on the wrong end of a bad situation.

[Jackdog]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

And how many times did you actually have to use it?

You talk about thinking rationally, but you don't appear to follow your own advice. Your thought process is the same as an overbearing mother who overreacts by not letting her child play outside, because once and a while she reads stories about kids getting abducted by child molesters. Oblivious to the fact that 99.9% of the time, that doesn't happen.

However, no media outlet is going to publish a story along the lines of "Children playing outside, had an enjoyable experience (which happens 99.9% of the time);" nor are you going to hear stories about "Officer pulls over speeder, gave him ticket, and both went their separate ways (which happens 99.9% of the time)." Instead, all you hear are the negative stories, and then you base your entire rationale on that (however misguided it is).

This isn't Iraq. This isn't a battlefield. Not everyone is out to kill you.

Please stop bringing up Iraq. We have much more dangerous places here in the US. The Mexican border states and Chicago come to mind. I served in Iraq. I don't envy the Border Patrol officers or any cop in the drug invested cities around the US.

[tsalbysp]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

This isn't the best defense for your argument.

It only takes one mistake, one person not following protocol to end up on the wrong end of a bad situation.

It only takes one time to let your child outside to play, one time, and your child is nabbed by a predator.

I'm not telling him not to have a firearm with him. It'd be stupid to be without a weapon. However, brandishing your firearm in public (in a hostile manner) when not in a hostile situation...unsupportable.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Quit bringing up political comparisons, and keep it on subject!


Have your opinions either way, but use maturity, and use that little filter in your head when posting. It is possible to have different opinions on the subject without bashing each other for it.

Final warning!

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

It only takes one time to let your child outside to play, one time, and your child is nabbed by a predator.

I'm not telling him not to have a firearm with him. It'd be stupid to be without a weapon. However, brandishing your firearm in public (in a hostile manner) when not in a hostile situation...unsupportable.

Which is exactly why my mom didn't let me play outside when I was a child.

[Jackdog]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Which is exactly why my mom didn't let me play outside when I was a child.

wow,my mom threw me and my brothers out of the house at 8am every day. Hmmm.

[ryan36]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Which is exactly why my mom didn't let me play outside when I was a child.

And now all that dedication to indoor activities makes you a mod! Hope momma's proud!

[ryan36]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

wow,my mom threw me and my brothers out of the house at 8am every day. Hmmm.

Well Jackdog's a senior mod, so that shoots my last post out of the water.

[Knight165]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

And how many times did you actually have to use it?

You talk about thinking rationally, but you don't appear to follow your own advice. Your thought process is the same as an overbearing mother who overreacts by not letting her child play outside, because once and a while she reads stories about kids getting abducted by child molesters. Oblivious to the fact that 99.9% of the time, that doesn't happen.

However, no media outlet is going to publish a story along the lines of "Children playing outside, had an enjoyable experience (which happens 99.9% of the time);" nor are you going to hear stories about "Officer pulls over speeder, gave him ticket, and both went their separate ways (which happens 99.9% of the time)." Instead, all you hear are the negative stories, and then you base your entire rationale on that (however misguided it is).

This isn't Iraq. This isn't a battlefield. Not everyone is out to kill you.

No it is not(and I don't know why you keep trying to make this correlation)...I didn't walk around with my gun out...twirling it and pointing it at random people and going "pow".

Think of it this way...unholstering your weapon when you are approaching someone who you are about to arrest or issue to is the same as putting your seatbelt on in your vehicle. 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 you are not going to need it....but does that mean you shouldn't wear it? Of course not.
Are you going to attempt to buckle up as the accident is occurring to you? Too late. Same thing with either having your weapon at the ready(aimed down and away...JUST as that officer did in the video) or having in the holster. If someone decides to make a play...you'll never get it out in time if he's ready to go. NEVER.
We have pull box alarms here in NYC for fires. 99 % are B.S. Kids fooling around. It's been near 100 degrees last month. I would like nothing better than to take those runs in in my shorts and tee shirt. Do I? No...I put on my bunker gear for every run(getting some nice swamp a$$ in the process)....why?...because you must be prepared. It wouldn't be right for the civilians or my fellow workers if there was a job off one of those boxes and I was trying to get dressed in the street while they were jumping out windows or expecting me to be taking windows or doors so they can gain entry or venting.

No...this isn't Iraq....but being in the uniformed service is one step closer to Iraq than I think you're used to.

M.K.
Knight165

[ChubbyBanana]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

It only takes one time to let your child outside to play, one time, and your child is nabbed by a predator.

I'm not telling him not to have a firearm with him. It'd be stupid to be without a weapon. However, brandishing your firearm in public (in a hostile manner) when not in a hostile situation...unsupportable.

Until you're in a situation where your life is threatened i find your unsupportable argument, unsupportable.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Until you're in a situation where your life is threatened i find your unsupportable argument, unsupportable.

Well one's life is threatened simply by the fact that they exist so discussions involving methods of self preservation can be argued by anyone imo. But that's not the point of this thread.

As far as the cop goes I think that it's fine for the gun to be unholstered but only if he identified himself as a cop. However, though I think what he did was ok in this situation I can see where the other guys are coming from for these reasons

1. The motorcycle is wide open and the drive had his hands on the bike for the whole time
2. There is no way that the guy could draw a gun in the time that it took that cop to cover the distance between the car and the bike.

On the original question of should this dude go to jail my answer to that is no. I'd probably equip a concealed dashcam to my car if I had the cash to get one in case anything went down.

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

wow,my mom threw me and my brothers out of the house at 8am every day. Hmmm.

This explains everything.

And now all that dedication to indoor activities makes you a mod! Hope momma's proud!

Hahaha...wait.

[NDAlum]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Well one's life is threatened simply by the fact that they exist so discussions involving methods of self preservation can be argued by anyone imo. But that's not the point of this thread.

As far as the cop goes I think that it's fine for the gun to be unholstered but only if he identified himself as a cop. However, though I think what he did was ok in this situation I can see where the other guys are coming from for these reasons

1. The motorcycle is wide open and the drive had his hands on the bike for the whole time
2. There is no way that the guy could draw a gun in the time that it took that cop to cover the distance between the car and the bike.

On the original question of should this dude go to jail my answer to that is no. I'd probably equip a concealed dashcam to my car if I had the cash to get one in case anything went down.

What does #2 even mean?

Every traffic stop is recorded anyways, so you can request a copy of it in court. Our system goes back a full minute (visual) before the camcorder was turned on. It's digital and constantly recording, but only saves when prompted.

Policy is to have the recorder on, so to have it off would cost an Officer his job or some type of disciplinary action. Not to mention the case would easily get thrown out in court.

[CMH]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

Well one's life is threatened simply by the fact that they exist so discussions involving methods of self preservation can be argued by anyone imo. But that's not the point of this thread.

As far as the cop goes I think that it's fine for the gun to be unholstered but only if he identified himself as a cop. However, though I think what he did was ok in this situation I can see where the other guys are coming from for these reasons

1. The motorcycle is wide open and the drive had his hands on the bike for the whole time
2. There is no way that the guy could draw a gun in the time that it took that cop to cover the distance between the car and the bike.

On the original question of should this dude go to jail my answer to that is no. I'd probably equip a concealed dashcam to my car if I had the cash to get one in case anything went down.

I can definitely see both sides as well.

What I do know is that I don't know very much about law enforcement. I have never been an office of the law, don't intend to be and know nothing about their operation, rules or protocols.

So, knowing that I know nothing, I think it serves me well to read the posts from current and former law enforcers and understand the purpose of the officer's actions in the video.

Not knowing anything, I too would feel a bit overwhelmed by all this. I can personally point to times I did not agree with how an officer handled me in a situation, but does that mean they were wrong for doing so? When I consider the reasoning behind his actions, it makes sense to me that he would act as he did. Does he know that I had only good intentions or that I did not fully understand what I walking into? No. He only can act on what he perceives to be the issue.

In order to protect and serve the community, officers have to be proactive rather than reactive. We hope that their actions will come with a semblance of common sense and rational thought, but we cannot control the actions of an individual.

If officers are taught to handle their weapon in the above scenario then am I right for arguing against it or am I right for feeling that it is a bit much? I guess the answer really lies in your own personal opinions and considering that everyone values danger differently, it's incredibly difficult to measure the danger in a situation by a case-by-case scenario.

In order to serve and protect, they must design the protocol to cover the worst case scenario. Worst case is an officer being unprepared to protect him/herself and the people around them.

The comparisons to a war zone are out of hand. Being aggravated with how the situation was handled is fair. But, one should take the thoughts of the officers on this forum and acknowledge that "though I don't agree with the actions, I now understand it was protocol. Maybe I should now take my opinion to an avenue that will hear me out and make changes that will better serve our community."

[Cusefan]

Re: Man faces 16 years in jail for videotaping gun-waving cop

I dont see how anyone here can defend this cop. Anyone ever heard of escalation of force, This cop certainly never has...

Why does every cop on here feel the need to defend or justify everything these knucklehead cops do.I back up cops 99% of the time, my Family are all cops, but I can take the blinders off and see there are a few people out there that should not have been cops. I was in the Army when Abu Ghraib happened, I could not defend those people because the were wrong. Sometimes you just have to be impartial and say they are wrong.