***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

[XXstormmXX]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Words can't describe how pissed off I am and I don't think I need to say why.

I'm guessing Fabergas went to Chelsea?

[barryf1fan]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Save the money for a position of need??? Not like Arsenal is hurting for an attacking mid.

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While I agree on the saving money to buy in a position of need. . . Just for example, when Rambo went down with an extended injury and then Ozil had a drop in form/minor injury, how would we have finished in the league with Cesc being able to play (not to mention having him for CL duty)? And I do get that we don't necessarily need another CM, but I also don't get how you pass on a guy for that price and especially if Arsenal is where he is wanting to play. I don't want to see him in any OTHER Premiere League kit.

Especially a BLUE shirt.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I'm guessing Fabergas went to Chelsea?

Nope. You can go back in this thread and read the discussion about how his original transfer to Barcelona went down.

Long story short: Barcelona tapped Cesc up for the good part of 3-4 years. Talking about how he had Barca DNA, he should return home, blah blah blah. The Barca players on Spain even went as far to force a Barca top on him up on stage when he was at an event for the national team. All when he was under contract with Arsenal. One of the most blatant and ridiculous examples of tapping up ever seen.

Now Barca suddenly doesn't want anything to do with him and are forcing him out just a few years later? What a bunch of *******s.

[VTPack919]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

While I agree on the saving money to buy in a position of need. . . Just for example, when Rambo went down with an extended injury and then Ozil had a drop in form/minor injury, how would we have finished in the league with Cesc being able to play (not to mention having him for CL duty)? And I do get that we don't necessarily need another CM, but I also don't get how you pass on a guy for that price and especially if Arsenal is where he is wanting to play. I don't want to see him in any OTHER Premiere League kit.

Especially a BLUE shirt.

Isn't Santi more naturally a CAM? Or is he a better fit on the wings? If Ozil gets hurt you have Santi (among others). That is about the best depth at CAM in the league if you ask me.

[ZM Punk]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I'm guessing Fabergas went to Chelsea?

I'm much more upset that we are passing on him.

[barryf1fan]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Isn't Santi more naturally a CAM? Or is he a better fit on the wings? If Ozil gets hurt you have Santi (among others). That is about the best depth at CAM in the league if you ask me.

I don't disagree with you. . . and I get what your point is, I really do. All I'm saying is how do you pass on that kind of talent for that price? Why would Arsenal have put the buy-back clause in if they were not leery of him possibly going to someone else in the EPL?

Again, I completely agree with you on the need of other positions. . . it's just after so many seasons with our MF being decimated by injury (Ramsey, Ox, Walcott, Flamini, Ozil, Arteta, Gnabry, and of course Diaby [not sure he should still count] having missed a game or more) having a World Class talent like the 'ol #4 couldn't hurt - and at really a bargain price. I don't claim to know what would be best, but I'm sure AW has a plan, I just hope that plan includes a major push to get players at the positions of need, especially by passing on this one.

And I think Santi can play in either role, he had to this season, and did well wherever he played. His goal in the FA final. Awesome!

[cdawg44]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

He's one of the best center mids on the planet, why would you be fine with not re-signing him?

Especially if the alternative is strengthening Chelsea

Seeing former Gooners in other people's kits just doesn't affect me like it once did. Hell half of City starting lineup were former Arsenal stars not that long ago. If Chelsea want him, take him for all I care.

We desprately need DM help so we don't get our asses handed to us in the first 20 minutes of games like we did. (See at City, Chelsea and at Liverpool for great examples. Plus Yaya freaking Sanogo is our back up striker. A kid who couldn't hack it at a League 2 side in France. TV5 wants out more than likely and we have only 1 damn goalkeeper right now. I love Cesc, but he got himself in this ****, threatened not to play in the pre-season in 2011 to basically force his way to Barca and guess what? They crapped on him, just like everybody else who leaves Arsenal for Barca and Madrid. I'll never respect Barca for the stuff they pulled with Cesc including the shirt crap at the 2010 World Cup and how they've treated this guy. However, we don't throw out life rafts here. Cesc is a direct all action midfielder. Not tika-taka. He plays high up the pitch and is allowed to ad lib at his best. It's totally laughable to me that Barca thought they could "mold" him into a new Xavi. I'm not the biggest football nerd, but damn I could see that wasn't gonna happen.

We have so many other needs it isn't funny, buying another creative mid is plain stupid. Cesc wouldn't have stopped us giving up 6 at Chelsea, 6 at City and 5 at Liverpool and 3 at Everton. We conceded 41 goals last term, 20 those were in those games. Cesc does nothing for that. It's like having bad pluming and a bad foundation on your house, so you take the money, get a new paint job, buy a hot tub and buy a 70 inch flat screen. It might look nicer, but you haven't fixed anything and Chelsea will probably kick our *** again if we don't address the major needs we have first

The injury concerns are a issue with Arsene's training philosophy and the training staff. Hell, even if we brought back Cesc, it doesn't address the serious need for the squad to change how we train and our rehab programs. The whole training staff should get the boot if they can't help these guys stay on the pitch.

[cdawg44]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I'm much more upset that we are passing on him.

I totally get why some Gooners are pissed. But I strongly believe we are doing the right thing by moving on. We are too weak, too direct and too slow right now. Plus we need another 25-30 goals a year to even be serious contenders for the EPL title. If I truly believed we'd get Cesc plus Javi Martinez and an elite striker then I'd be more upset. However if it was down to Cesc or those two things, I'll take the latter. We aren't Chelsea or City, money is a zero sum game for us.

[VTPack919]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I figured a Gooner would be able to put it much better than I.


Great post.

[cdawg44]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Isn't Santi more naturally a CAM? Or is he a better fit on the wings? If Ozil gets hurt you have Santi (among others). That is about the best depth at CAM in the league if you ask me.

Plus add in Rosicky, who won't play every week, but can give great performances and play on the right or in the 10 hole like he did against Spurs. Buying Cesc pretty much pulls the plug on Ramsey if you play Cesc deeper or Santi. Ozil and Walcott must play plus Giroud and your DM. Cesc would be in the exact same predicament as he is at Barca. Unless we do the false 9 thing.

[Brahvocado]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Cesc is a better player than both Ramsey and Santi (who is 30).

You certainly know your team better than I do, however this can be a negative thing as well. You dismiss Cesc as if he's just another good player. Yes you guys have DECENT depth, but if you want to win the league or CL you need GREAT depth. Look at the players that City/Chelsea/Bayern etc. have coming off the bench, and you guys have Arteta.

You also underestimate the type of player Cesc is. You guys could actually really use him right now, because he is a leader in the midfield and you don't have any of those. I'm sure you will disagree with me, but that is actually the reason you guys conceded all those goals, your defense is actually very good. Flamini did the job he needed to do and did it very well, and everything was going great until it wasn't, and as soon as it wasn't there was nobody in midfield to rally the troops. There is a reason every analyst is constantly talking about the lack of leadership in your team, and that is precisely what Cesc would bring you guys. Throwing Khedira out there wouldn't have stopped you guys from capitulation. You guys need a leader in the midfield that will lift the team and grab the game by the neck himself if things aren't going well, Ozil is not that type of player.

I completely understand what you are saying, it seems like a lot of money to spend on a midfielder when you have a bunch, but that is mid-table club mentality, you guys are not Everton, having money and refusing to spend it is different from just not having it. All jokes aside, Arsenals comical frugality will end at some point. As a fan you shouldn't have to anticipate which need will be addressed in each window, you should be expecting them all to be addressed because you are freaking Arsenal. Cesc is relatively cheap, counts as homegrown, tailored perfectly to the league and your club, has already mastered the league previously, and still has plenty of years left in him. I just don't see any downside.

I have a feeling we probably just won't agree on this, and at the end of the day I'd obviously rather have Cesc on my team than yours, I just wanted to point out how much more he offers than just being another AM.

[cdawg44]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Cesc is a better player than both Ramsey and Santi (who is 30).

You certainly know your team better than I do, however this can be a negative thing as well. You dismiss Cesc as if he's just another good player. Yes you guys have DECENT depth, but if you want to win the league or CL you need GREAT depth. Look at the players that City/Chelsea/Bayern etc. have coming off the bench, and you guys have Arteta.

You also underestimate the type of player Cesc is. You guys could actually really use him right now, because he is a leader in the midfield and you don't have any of those. I'm sure you will disagree with me, but that is actually the reason you guys conceded all those goals, your defense is actually very good. Flamini did the job he needed to do and did it very well, and everything was going great until it wasn't, and as soon as it wasn't there was nobody in midfield to rally the troops. There is a reason every analyst is constantly talking about the lack of leadership in your team, and that is precisely what Cesc would bring you guys. Throwing Khedira out there wouldn't have stopped you guys from capitulation. You guys need a leader in the midfield that will lift the team and grab the game by the neck himself if things aren't going well, Ozil is not that type of player.

I completely understand what you are saying, it seems like a lot of money to spend on a midfielder when you have a bunch, but that is mid-table club mentality, you guys are not Everton, having money and refusing to spend it is different from just not having it. All jokes aside, Arsenals comical frugality will end at some point. As a fan you shouldn't have to anticipate which need will be addressed in each window, you should be expecting them all to be addressed because you are freaking Arsenal. Cesc is relatively cheap, counts as homegrown, tailored perfectly to the league and your club, has already mastered the league previously, and still has plenty of years left in him. I just don't see any downside.

I have a feeling we probably just won't agree on this, and at the end of the day I'd obviously rather have Cesc on my team than yours, I just wanted to point out how much more he offers than just being another AM.

Totally respect your position on that and sure my view could be very myopic. Totally right on Flamini, in fact he's probably my favorite player on the squad (besides the BFG) cause he does the dirty little things we need. Was more than pissed when he left for Milan in 2008. He's a substitute option to grind out games and doesn't have the technical skill we need in that slot IMHO despite everything I love about him.

Me being opposed to Cesc being bought back is more a function of the fact that I know we will buy him instead of somebody else. We don't buy a striker last summer, but buy Ozil. We are always half-assing it in the transfer market and always seem to do things out of order.

As much as I tease y'all about parking the bus, you guys are fantastically pragmatic. Dammit y'all have great players like Matic, Willian who will sell out to stop the opposition and to me Arsenal need much more grit and determination to grind out 2-1 and 1-1 games and realize you can't blow everybody out with beautiful football.

First Class Response Mate!!

[Brahvocado]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

It would probably be easier to be an Everton fan honestly, at least you know where your club stands and the money spent is a reflection of expectations. As opposed to Arsenal where they actually have money to spend, are a massive club, and SHOULD have very high expectations every year but instead oh hey check out this SICK 15 year old Cambodian kid from the Russian 5th division.

[rsnomar05]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

It would probably be easier to be an Everton fan honestly, at least you know where your club stands and the money spent is a reflection of expectations. As opposed to Arsenal where they actually have money to spend, are a massive club, and SHOULD have very high expectations every year but instead oh hey check out this SICK 15 year old Cambodian kid from the Russian 5th division.

Except that the Arsenal brass repeatedly said that the stadium financing deal meant they wouldn't be able to spend as much in the transfer market, but that once they got to renegotiate sponsorship deals and the like they would start spending, and lo and behold after renegotiating several sponsorship deals they went out and smashed their transfer record on Ozil.

If they don't spend money this summer than you have a point, but the club showed with the Ozil signing that they now mean business in the transfer market. Now, Ozil may not have been the wisest signing in terms of not signing a striker, but the club went out and got a world class player.

Now, as for people saying not signing Cesc is mid-table mentality and we should sign Cesc in addition to our other positions of need, that is an extremely over-simplistic look. If Arsenal only needed a striker, then sure, why not splash some cash on Cesc. The problem is, Arsenal need a striker, a right back, and center back, and a backup goalkeeper. That's four positions of need. And CAM is the last position of need for Arsenal. I mean, they have Cazorla, Ozil, Ramsey, Walcott, Rosicky, Arteta, Diaby (though he's always injured), not to mention Ox who played in the center and who Arsene insists is better in the center. Look, if Arsenal sign four players in their positions of need, AND IN ADDITION sign Cesc, then I'll be over the moon. But I want a world class striker and right back, and those two will be expensive. Then I want a quality CB and quality backup keeper. I doubt we have much, if any, money left after that. So no thanks on Cesc unless the other four signings are made as well.

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I love Cesc Fabregas. I really do but as disappointed as I am that he's not coming back we have other needs. We need a striker for sure.