***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Shawcross had every right to go for the ball, it was actually a very good challenge, just unfortunate that Ramsay's momentum and the force of the tackle meant that something had to give.
It wasn't a lunge, these challenges were made every week in the 80's.

What makes it a good challenge? Simply because he went for the ball? He put an incredible amount of force into that challenge. He knew that he was making a very hard tackle, one that didn't need to be that hard to just win the ball, and to deny that is utter lunacy.

Once again, did he mean to break Ramsey's leg, of course not.

However, another fantastic point was made on the Arseblog today. Say that after that tackle, Ramsey just ends up with a bruised shin, and stays on the ground. The tackle is exactly the same, but there's no break.

Shawcross would walk away proud of what he did, proud that got in Ramsey's face and got stuck in. Instead, a horrible accident occurred, which can easily happen when you play as reckless as Shawcross has shown he plays.

There's yet another video now showing another brutal, non ball winning tackle by Shawcross, that just illustrates he really needs to re-evaluate the way he plays the game.

As for these challenges being made in the 80's, the speed of the game now is nowhere where it was in the 80's, and you know that makes a huge difference. Trying to say the same principles apply now that did then is an argument not worth making.

[KOL]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

So you can no longer go into a tackle with any force? There was no malice in the tackle, Shawcross was just doing his job, and he did it, he won the ball.
If you were to pause the moment before the tackle was made, and asked any player they would all say that they would have gone for the ball.
The reason why Peter Walton sent him off was A. Because of his reaction to the leg not the tackle, a heat of the moment decision.
B. If Shawcross would have been booked then the Arsenal players would have reacted badly and probably tried to break his leg. e.g the Fabregas challenge was a shocker at the end there.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Just because you win the ball, does not mean it's okay to take out the man, under any circumstances. If you honestly disagree with that, then I guess you should just watch 1980's football, because that's not how it is anymore.

Plus, if doing your job means that a side effect is breaking someone's leg, then you might want to re-evaluate how you do your job, which I already touched on. This is not the first time he's injured someone just by "doing his job".

It seems that you think it was Ramsey's fault for being there, or for being too quick and Shawcross not knowing he was there.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Wenger still interested in Melo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/02/arsene-wenger-felipe-melo-arsenal

[Bruins]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Clearly (as evidenced by the following screencap from Match of the Day), Shawcross was not going into the tackle with any maliciousness or intent to injure whatsoever.

Look at Shawcross' foot, going in with the laces like you should on any good tackle. He could have very easily gone in studs first, but instead opted to go in on the side, with the laces. I believe that is what KOL is trying to say when he says good tackle.

He's a victim (and I use that term very loosely, as really the only victim in this incitent is Ramsey of course) of Ramsey being quicker on the ball, which meant the ball was gone a split second sooner than Shawcross expected.

(Erring on the side of caution and putting the image in spoiler tags, as it is somewhat graphic)

Spoiler

[ZM Punk]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Clearly (as evidenced by the following screencap from Match of the Day), Shawcross was not going into the tackle with any maliciousness or intent to injure whatsoever.

Look at Shawcross' foot, going in with the laces like you should on any good tackle. He could have very easily gone in studs first, but instead opted to go in on the side, with the laces. I believe that is what KOL is trying to say when he says good tackle.

He's a victim (and I use that term very loosely, as really the only victim in this incitent is Ramsey of course) of Ramsey being quicker on the ball, which meant the ball was gone a split second sooner than Shawcross expected.

(Erring on the side of caution and putting the image in spoiler tags, as it is somewhat graphic)

Spoiler

Thats the problem, no one is accusing Shawcross of trying to deliberately injure Ramsey. The problem was the sheer force of the tackle. There was no reason whatsoever for him to go in that hard on that tackle.

[Acid]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

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I want to marry Cesc Fabregas.

[Blaxican8504]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

Thats the problem, no one is accusing Shawcross of trying to deliberately injure Ramsey. The problem was the sheer force of the tackle. There was no reason whatsoever for him to go in that hard on that tackle.

So it's gone from being a reckless, brutal, and bad challenge to being too hard of a tackle? Please. There was nothing wrong with the tackle at all.

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

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I want to marry Cesc Fabregas.

Me too lol

[ZM Punk]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

So it's gone from being a reckless, brutal, and bad challenge to being too hard of a tackle? Please. There was nothing wrong with the tackle at all.

Sure, the tackle just broke the guys leg and got him sent off. Nothing wrong with the tackle at all.

The tackle was reckless and very hard. The intent wasn't to break his leg, but when you go in that hard, there is a chance things like that will happen.

I guess Ramsey was just too quick and too small and this was bound to happen? Arsene should just teach his guys to be slow and these things won't happen anymore.

I bet you guys opinion would change quite a bit, if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was your teams players suffering 3 career threatening injuries in the span of 4 years.

With that said, I'm done with this subject.

Poor Ryan Shawcross.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

So it's gone from being a reckless, brutal, and bad challenge to being too hard of a tackle? Please. There was nothing wrong with the tackle at all.

Excessive force in a tackle is reckless and overall a bad challenge.

Also, fantastic point just made on the 5 Live Daily podcast, and I think most Arsenal supporters would agree.

It was said that the tackle was definitely reckless, and that Shawcross could've easily broken his leg by going in like that. Which would be very unfortunate, but still would've been the result of his decision to go into that tackle.

So, there was a good chance of someone being hurt, him or Ramsey, and it's because he made the decision to make that tackle, that did not need to be made.

[Mo]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

Carlos Vela was pulled late in the game for Mexico with some sort of muscle strain.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

Carlos Vela was pulled late in the game for Mexico with some sort of muscle strain.

At this point, I don't even think that's an injury I'd worry about. If it's the only one coming out of the international friendlies, then that's pretty good for us. He's practically disappeared this season, so I don't see this hurting our depth too much.

[rsnomar05]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

At this point, I don't even think that's an injury I'd worry about. If it's the only one coming out of the international friendlies, then that's pretty good for us. He's practically disappeared this season, so I don't see this hurting our depth too much.

Yeah, if that's the only injury than I'm pleased there hasn't been another Van Persie-type injury.

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal &quot;Gunners&quot; Thread***

I completely agree. He wasn't contributing anyway this season