FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

[lowpaiddonkey10]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

It's not even half an hour in, and nobody likely cares, but as an American who watches a lot of football but never the USMNT (I've heard some of these names but haven't seen many play) here's what's abundantly clear to me so far:

• The US has explosive athleticism, but is severly lacking in technical skills (which informs the next point)

• They attack in a way that does not suit them by moving the ball too quickly and passing too ambitiously

• They seem poorly coached (what I assume is not a novel thought) and by that I mean they seem to have no real attacking plan—at all

Overall, they look like a D1 side that's trying to play a certain way, but they can't (trying to pass like the best teams in the world but without their players). Just some thoughts from an, uh, outsider.

I think explosive athleticism is a bit of a stretch but yeah they got no ball skills. Some of these guys play in Europe? Pulusic is the only one that gets minutes.

[Cod]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I think explosive athleticism is a bit of a stretch but yeah they got no ball skills. Some of these guys play in Europe? Pulusic is the only one that gets minutes.

Your last statement is not true at all. CCV starts 90% of Celtic matches. This season, Tyler Adams started all but one of Leeds matches and Brendon Aaronson started all 14 thus far. Pulisic actually gets some of the lowest minutes of all the Americans playing in Europe.

[Krebstar]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Can’t front, I do feel like the whole blaming the manager thing is low hanging fruit for folks to easily reach and grab for, especially for this team.

It’d be one thing if they were this uber-talented squad with tons of young good/elite talent like other countries have and they were a good manager away from making a run, but they’re not.

I'll front (possibly my first time, or I possible habitually front, or it's the vodka typing)—as I'm essentially a neutral party. Those players seemed like they're given no clear instructions or know what system they've been trained to execute.

The sport is full, continuously, of inferior talented sides who can overcome a more talented side through organization and every player understanding their role, because they've been told exactly what it is. In that case, it's often (rightly) the manager who is praised.

[Cod]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'll front (possibly my first time, or I possible habitually front, or it's the vodka typing)—as I'm essentially a neutral party. Those players seemed like they're given no clear instructions or know what system they've been trained to execute.

The sport is full, continuously, of inferior talented sides who can overcome a more talented side through organization and every player understanding their role, because they've been told exactly what it is. In that case, it's often (rightly) the manager who is praised.

Japan (#24) is an example of this. Their manager is slowly proving to the world he is able to adapt tactics throughout a match to improve his team's chances. Here's a breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgFYBiI-3FE

The reverse is also true...see Belgium.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'll front (possibly my first time, or I possible habitually front, or it's the vodka typing)—as I'm essentially a neutral party. Those players seemed like they're given no clear instructions or know what system they've been trained to execute.

The sport is full, continuously, of inferior talented sides who can overcome a more talented side through organization and every player understanding their role, because they've been told exactly what it is. In that case, it's often (rightly) the manager who is praised.

Unsurprisingly I'll disagree. I think its evident what system or philosophy they've been trained on -- possession heavy grind down the opposition offense using direct passing.

I'm not overly fond of it as a rule for international teams because a big component is chemistry and familiarity within the team and international teams don't practice as a unit as much. It also hurts us even more because of our team's youth.

Its valid criticism to levy at Berhalter that he is managing the MNT as a club team in this regard. A common criticism of Berhalter's management is that his system is too rigid and detail focused. Another poster earlier in this thread highlighted the apparent indecisiveness the squad has shown in the attacking third and I think he was alluding to this.

So whether its the best system is a valid and open question, but I don't think there is much doubt that there is a unified system present. In fact the presence of such a system is exactly how and why Van Gaal was able to exploit it. He knew exactly what we were going to do and how to counter that.

Some time ago I read an article from before he was hired on and it speculated on him being the next manager and discussed his system. And their speculation is exactly what we see now.

TL;DR Its not that they are given no clear instructions, its the opposite. They are relying on specific instructions rather than playing a bit more on instinct.

[fugazi]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'm not sure the result would be different really...

But am I the only one that would've liked to see Weah up front with Aaronson on the right? Or with CO and Gio a little more central?

Or just Pulisic more central, in general?

Or 2 strikers up front? Though a bit of a throwback, I think the best formation might have been a 4312.


Rumor has it Tyler Adams is still casually jogging behind Memphis.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'll front (possibly my first time, or I possible habitually front, or it's the vodka typing)—as I'm essentially a neutral party. Those players seemed like they're given no clear instructions or know what system they've been trained to execute.

The sport is full, continuously, of inferior talented sides who can overcome a more talented side through organization and every player understanding their role, because they've been told exactly what it is. In that case, it's often (rightly) the manager who is praised.

Question: What’s the difference between him and Klinnsman?

[p_rushing]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Question: What’s the difference between him and Klinnsman?

The floor is a little higher. That's probably it. They should qualify, depending on draw make it out if the group, but then lose.

At the end of the day the results haven't really changed.

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[lowpaiddonkey10]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Your last statement is not true at all. CCV starts 90% of Celtic matches. This season, Tyler Adams started all but one of Leeds matches and Brendon Aaronson started all 14 thus far. Pulisic actually gets some of the lowest minutes of all the Americans playing in Europe.

Waiting on that one. Celtic? Rangers and a bunch of pub teams is not a first class pro league.

[Krebstar]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Unsurprisingly I'll disagree. I think its evident what system or philosophy they've been trained on -- possession heavy grind down the opposition offense using direct passing.

Except grinding down and direct passing are essentially opposite. Direct passing often cedes possession. If the goal is to maintain possession before suddenly being very direct, the possession before was pointless as what purpose did it serve? Allowing a side to get its shape before you suddenly attack directly? The goal is to do that before they’re ready, therefore controlling possession isn’t necessary.

Grinding down through possession means slowly pulling apart a team’s shape. Holding possession before suddenly giving up on possession and launching a very direct attack is…not often ideal.

[Krebstar]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Question: What’s the difference between him and Klinnsman?

I didn’t watch, nor do I watch enough USMNT to really answer but if I had to I’d say the similarity is not enough focus on tactics or a system.

I’m sure it’s a giant can of worms for those who follow the USMNT, but a non-American coach/manager has to be considered at some point.

The rare Marsch is not a realistic appointment at this point in his career as he’d almost certainly rather focus on a club position.

Reminder: very much an outside perspective when it comes to the USMNT in particular—the sport, no. The yanks, yes.

[fugazi]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'd love a top shelf manager...

But that won't fix the real issues, which have existed for a very long time

1) first touch... very few Americans have one of real quality. Robinson is a great example.

2) play is too slow, especially on breaks. Always one touch too many in transition, missed runs, or the pass sent in a tick too late.

3) No creativity or final pass.

While each of these problems have diminished over the years, they are still very present and apparent.

[Krebstar]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

I'd love a top shelf manager...

But that won't fix the real issues, which have existed for a very long time

1) first touch... very few Americans have one of real quality. Robinson is a great example.

2) play is too slow, especially on breaks. Always one touch too many in transition, missed runs, or the pass sent in a tick too late.

3) No creativity or final pass.

While each of these problems have diminished over the years, they are still very present and apparent.

I'll end my USMNT thoughts with this (because Giroud is looking handsome and scoring), and then let the discussion continue in the other thread, where I assume it is/has: the biggest thing that is needed, and it has been for many cycles, is time. Unfortunately, casual supporters/viewers either don't understand this, or won't accept it.

Much more time.

[KG]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Then yall delusional man. The weakest link was striker and everyone knows that. Managers and coaches are always the easy targets though and its no different here.

How you can sit here and say the problem was Berhalter when all 3 Dutch goals came from an unmarked shooter, Pulisic missed from point blank range, Wright had a goal practically handed to him but squandered it with a heavy touch, and countless other miscues were had.

What adjustment would solve this? "Hey guys don't forget to mark players in the box?"

The players made mistakes in a game against a club that had the quality to make them pay for it. Its that simple.

Go ahead and replace Berhalter and when the next coach has the same results call for his head too instead of acknowledging that we don't have the quality to go toe to toe with the top squads yet.

I'm happy that our very young team reached the KO stage and count this as a good showing.

He set us up to get exposed on the counter playing right into the Dutch’s mid block which is what they played in all 3 group stage matches. He pushed our FBs way to high and central which is how we ended up getting exposed on the 2nd goal. A fullback to fullback goal means something went wrong higher up the pitch.

Individual player mistakes are compounded by poor instructions. Starting Ferreira up top as a False 9 against a team with a back 3 captained by one of the best defenders in the world? Cmon man, that’s why he got hooked at HT because he was useless.

I give GB credit for the fact that we played forward. I don’t think anyone who has watched this team during qualifying expected that but he got us as far as he could do it’s time to move aside and let someone better take us to the next level.


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[Suntan Superman]

Re: FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022

Question: What’s the difference between him and Klinnsman?

They are incredibly different to be honest. I disagree with Kreb's initial assessment that they weren't given tactical instructions, I believe it to be the opposite in fact, I think they were given too many.

Tactically Berhalter and Klinsmann are separated by their rigidity in their tactics. For all of his faults as a manager, Klinsmann was generally willing to adapt his formation to whomever he believed to be the best players at his disposal. While philosophically he was more concerned with being fruitful in attack than solid in defense. Klinsmann also generally had a preference for Euro-based players, regardless of who they were playing for, how they were playing(lest we forget Julian Green making the squad while playing for Bayern Munich II in 2014) while Berhalter has a preference for people who are a "good fit" for his tactical system. Klinsmann often faced questions about his tactics because there was a general lack of them, in fact we can go back to Klinsmann's time with Germany where Philip Lahm and others said that Klinsmann didn't even do most of the tactics, his assistant(and future Germany NT Manager) Joachim Löw who handled the 2006 World Cup. Lahm also criticized him after his time in Munich came to an end.

Being more specific in my personal criticism of Berhalter(whom I think overall did a fine job building the squad, giving them confidence, and doing what he thought was best), I don't this personal tactical philosophy is well-worked for a National Team. Complex pressing patterns using rotational triangles where people have to drop back, change assignment, and rotate through to make sure everyone is marked is a bit too complicated to really implement during NT training. Not only that, but with the unique circumstance of this World Cup(in the middle of club season, weather changes, no real training in the lead up) player's fitness levels weren't really what they needed to be heading into the tournament to effectively press for the time that Berhalter wanted to. I think if we had a more simple press, and more simple press triggers we would've been more effective, and less gassed 30 minutes into the fourth match of the tournament.

Klinsmann as a manager was also a mentorship for a lot of players, he helped them secure moves abroad, or otherwise further their career outside of the National Team. He also gave a lot of people opportunities, where Gregg had more of a "Gregg's guys" set-up, which in part I believe is due to his tactical rigidity. Something Van Gaal touched on in his presser, where he went on about how the very good teams never need to compromise on their tactics because their talent will see them through, and once he learned Gregg wouldn't drastically alter his tactics, he knew he just needed to not get beat by them.

All in all I thought we did solid if unspectacular at this World Cup. I don't think Gregg called the right people(Pepi being the most obvious and curious miss), and he could've used a better plan B/C but overall I'm fairly satisfied with his performance. I wouldn't bring him back, but that is more because I wouldn't give any HC more than 1 cycle, unless they absolutely blew it out of the water. As Football is an ever-evolving sport with new ideas, new philosophies, and new players, I think not bringing someone new in is a mistake.