CFM Coaching Tree for Madden

[Trick13]

Wish they would bring over the coaching skills tree, somewhat modified, into the Madden series for CFMs.


I would expand it to include separate trees for; Owner/GM, Scout Dept, Training Staff, Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, RBs Coach, WRs Coach, OL coach, DL coach, LBs coach, DBs coach


Within the position groups you could assign some positions - ie TEs if I am run heavy I may assign TEs to OL coach, where a pass happy coach would assign them to WRs coach, RBs coach would have two specialty choices QBs or RBs.


Positional coaches as they rise in ranking would force you to make some choices "promote and retain, or allow to interview with other teams" -same with OC/DC - you could promote them, thus ousting your current HC or allow them to interview for other openings and then be able to allow them to walk or offer them a new contract in attempt to retain them.


I would stay away from significant bonuses to certain attributes - like THP or SPD and would gear the tree to more technique attributes - a DC may have a "swarming defense" option that increases PUR rating, or some of the ones that NCAA had around run blocking, block shedding, and so forth.


Owner/GM - would be marketing, press perception, perhaps stadium funding influence, but also include FA interest, contract negotiation, trade negotiation


Scout Dept - Conference based XP pricing reductions (SEC, Big 12, etc)
Scouting points levels (meaning experience garners more accurate scouting)
Position specialty - choose one position OT, DT, WR, SS where they excel
Gem finder - very small chance to highlight late RD impact player (perhaps based on DEV or incoming OVR or user defined specifics - ie - RB with 90 acc, 90 agi, or WR 85 or higher SPC, OL with 85 or above impact block...


HC would have offensive, defensive, motivational, chemistry, discipline, and team building skill trees.
Team building tree would only apply if you are playing as a coach - if you are an owner his tree would apply for that (contracts, retirements. trades)
Motivational would be confidence, rival game hot streak like NCAA




Well, you get the idea...

[Cre8]

I feel like it is a slippery slope with these coaching trees.

They all made me feel like I was playing an arcade game in NCAA 14. I'd like to have some sort of depth with coaching and introduction of scouts for drafts, etc... I just don't know if the coaching tree is the answer. The only way I could see it working is if it were things that remain 'under the hood' and also stay in the realm of sim.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cre8

I feel like it is a slippery slope with these coaching trees. They all made me feel like I was playing an arcade game in NCAA 14. I'd like to have some sort of depth with coaching and introduction of scouts for drafts, etc... I just don't know if the coaching tree is the answer. The only way I could see it working is if it were things that remain 'under the hood' and also stay in the realm of sim.

On one hand, I agree a bit about the arcade feel of it - I would not have coach tree items that impacted SPD, POW, and a few other "you have it or you don't - it can't be coached" skills.


On the other hand, it is no more arcade than the ridiculous XP system. While I would love to see EA go back to a potential driven progression system and coaching skill under the hood - they are not going to. They have pretty much said they aren't doing the whole add a feature - remove a feature - so I am pretty sure we are stuck with XP progression for a while. I don't like it, but that's how it is.


I think adding a very robust coach tree, similar to NCAA's but with some tweaks - adds a bit of a reason to have coaches in the game. Having separate skill sets for different aspects and really extending them out would work well.


I played a solo CFM and my created coach has every XP buyable upgrade heading into the playoffs of year 3 - likely would have had them sooner, but I simmed the entire first season.


With the tree in place you have all those XP positional upgrades, plus the game manager stuff, plus team building stuff - and if they had a "difficulty setting" within it you could have very expensive "upgrades" or skills that make being a coach, or keeping one in the organization more rewarding than it is now.


Not perfect, but currently it feels like the coaches have zero impact (outside progression XP for positions) and so firing a coach has no impact on team...

[Cre8]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

On the other hand, it is no more arcade than the ridiculous XP system. While I would love to see EA go back to a potential driven progression system and coaching skill under the hood - they are not going to. They have pretty much said they aren't doing the whole add a feature - remove a feature - so I am pretty sure we are stuck with XP progression for a while. I don't like it, but that's how it is.

I called for the end of the potential system because it established a ceiling for every player regardless of performance (even over multiple seasons). That said, the XP System has shown itself to be a failure in terms of trying to alleviate the issue of progression in players. In that regard I'd prefer it was something more 'under the hood' where instead of manually doing it (like we can now) it is always on 'Auto'.

That is perhaps where your coaching tree, etc. can come into effect. There are many coaches out there that are better at developing QBs, HBs, WRs, and every other position/side of the ball. Then you could grow your project players according to their production as well as their coaching.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cre8

I called for the end of the potential system because it established a ceiling for every player regardless of performance (even over multiple seasons). That said, the XP System has shown itself to be a failure in terms of trying to alleviate the issue of progression in players. In that regard I'd prefer it was something more 'under the hood' where instead of manually doing it (like we can now) it is always on 'Auto'. ...

I agree that the XP system is a failure. And on top of the failings of the system it just sucks to use. 1 point at a time for 50+ players is tedious as heck. And while I don't mind the ability to "upgrade" a player's DEV level it seems kind of contrived to me.


I miss the progression system specifically because of the cap/ceiling it placed on player development. Where I hated it, and the XP system for that matter, is the idea that you can "know" a player's potential or development level immediately. Either once they are drafted and signed, or before hand by scouting it.


I don't get the idea behind this player got x stat this and y stat that so he should be rated higher - makes no sense to me.


However, I see a way within what EA has in the game right now to fix it. The PROD rating dynamically changing based on the stats within the season. The season PROD rating would fluctuate dependent upon the stats you accrue. During the season your PROD number would be reflective of where the player ranks in significant stat categories - with some being more heavily weighed than others. The season PROD number would be calculated into OVR. During the offseason the last year's PROD number would be used. Legacy - is already in the game and should be referenced for career production/success.


Then you take the PROD/DUR/PHYS/SIZE/INT ratings and average them out for the OVR rating. This adds in injury concerns and to some degree scheme fit into player's OVR rating. Now when you have a 57 rated WR that you amass 35 receptions for 675 yards and 9 TDs with - his PROD number is going to drive up his OVR rating - nothing has changed - meaning without awarding a single XP his OVR would change based on his production - his skills would all be the same (until you award the XP).


Now when it comes time to sign that player - he is going to be looking for over the league minimum and likely looking for some bonus money - where as in the past he was rated 57 so he would sign for like 650K and 1 year - and because you clearly did not need his XP to get him those stats - you don't ever award them so you keep this guy on the cheap. But if PROD factors into OVR, and it should be the most heavily weighted in the formula, then all of sudden you have to pay more in line with his stats than his arbitrary ratings.


Players in real life - they have a ceiling. See David Carr/Joey Harrington/Robert Gallery. Heck look at A.J. Hawk - 5th overall pick in 2006 by the Packers. No matter how many stats he gets he will never be faster, quicker, able to jump higher. He can work on techniques - tackling, block shedding, and study tape to increase his play recognition and so forth, but he will never be a HOFer, he is a solid productive player, but nothing special. He is likely as good now as he will ever be. I do not see how a system that replicated that was a bad thing...


Having PROD be stat driven within seasons, leaving legacy for whatever that is for, and dynamically factoring PROD into OVR along with a potential based progression system while hiding the POT rating seems like the most authentic way of simulating what goes on in the actual NFL. At least, in my opinion.

[StayPlation82]

I’d like to start by saying neither system (Old & XP) are failures. They are two different systems that needed tweaks to be better. Both are fun and both lead to exploits which is what games can become. That said the XP system is better IMO because I can work on specific things with players. Having it under a hood that I can’t pop is pointless. (100 CTH season and get a +10 BCV) Things like physical attributes (things that can be measured) don’t need to be changed and they do a good job with the pricing of those. Having a difficulty setting for XP isn’t a bad idea to make it more difficult. Adding the ability to add more than +1 at a time is a necessity. At its core this system works.

The idea that some players have a ceiling is noble but it’s flawed when it comes to video games. If I play with Tebow and Throw 30 TDs and 6 INTs then he’s not a bust. We control the players, so if someone is USERing AJ Hawk and balls out for 13 seasons then he’s a hall of famer. If he averages 3 tackles a game over that 13 seasons then the game will put him where he needs to be…mediocre at best.

Also I like the coaching tree idea, adding it in a way that can be fun and SIM is difficult. Those in game boost from NCAA were kinda crazy on the game management side but it made for a strategically fun unSIM experience. I want Coordinators; personally I don’t want individual position coaches. Scouts and Trainers are cool too.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by StayPlation82

... ... Also I like the coaching tree idea, adding it in a way that can be fun and SIM is difficult. Those in game boost from NCAA were kinda crazy on the game management side but it made for a strategically fun unSIM experience. I want Coordinators; personally I don’t want individual position coaches. Scouts and Trainers are cool too.

The bold part I agree with - guess I should have been more specific, but that is why I said "somewhat modified".


It would need toned down, in terms of what NCAA had on the game manager tree and would, IMO, need a setting or slider to make the progression within the tree fairly slow for those of us who want to be more "sim" minded.


There is nothing "SIM" about XP system for progression. I understand the appeal of "directing" what areas players progress in - but I think it is a crap system the way it is currently implemented.

[Plunkett]

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