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Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madden

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Old 07-14-2014, 01:35 AM   #97
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

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Originally Posted by kehlis
But even with that said how many 32 team online franchises are there? I know there are some but there can't be that many.

That means any league that doesn't have 32 users still has the same imbalance on the CPU controlled teams in online play as there is in an offline CFM.

Whether that was an acceptable loss based on design decision I have no idea but if it was designed strictly for online play versus offline it was still designed poorly.
Unfortunetly (Unless this year is different) getting CPU AI tuned for different things is not a priority.
We asked a year ago or so about different things regarding CPU AI.
The answer was stuff like "Just hot route them yourself" etc.

This went back and forth as we were trying to get them to understand we were talking about when playing the CPU.
The general answer to everything was a "Playing a user vs user game doesn't have that problem" answer.

In my M25 SP franchise I skipped the practice to try and keep it fair.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #98
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Pittbull
Im interested to see how deep they go with this. I know the game. I've played it in real life. So its probably not going to do much for guys like me who LIVE football.


I do think its a good idea as long as they stay true to making Madden a complete simulation in the future. Ive said before they(EA/Madden) have their foot in BOTH buckets right now. The have a few simulation aspects but they still have more weight in the arcade bucket. It has made some nice strides in the last few years, its just at a snails pace.


They need to get the game to the point where the gamer is FORCED to play football, not play "Madden" football. I would say this mode would help those who lack basic football knowledge and maybe if more people actually knew how to play football, they're would be less players learning to cheese/glitch/ and exploit the AI.
I agree.

Here's the thing though: Madden's controls are too basic. The gameplay is too easy in general. Look at running the ball. Well theres sprint, spin, juke, truck, backstep? Even though they try to advertise chaining moves together how often does that happen. Very basic. The running itself, even with true step, does it ever punish you for over sprinting or not understanding your momentum? For having the ball in the wrong hand? For spinning/juking in traffic? Very easy.

The easiest comparison is always with FIFA. For example, in FIFA there is a drill where you just have to weave through poles with gatorade bottles on top without knocking them down. Why? Because the controls are complex and the gameplay is challenging. If you move too aggressively the ball won't stay close to you and you wont be able to make turns with possession. The have varying paces, not just from sprinting like Madden. Imagine if Madden had a cone drill because you had to adjust to how you had to turn with different size/skilled players? FIFA has the skill moves to differentiate how players handle the ball too.

There are so many passing drills in FIFA. Why? Because passing controls are complex and the execution in gameplay is challenging. In Madden we have lob and bullet, throw in total control to let you pick high/low/left/right and that's it. FIFA? Standard, cross, lead pass. Hold L1/LB and get different type of pass. Crosses can be double tapped or triple tapped for different types of crosses. The options are beautiful. When do you think we will ever be able to throw a back shoulder pass in Madden? Imagine if you could double tap or triple tap the receiver icon to get a different type of pass?

Last edited by wordtobigbird; 07-14-2014 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:17 AM   #99
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
There's a big difference between a balancing issue and broken game design. You can't just conflate the two so brazenly.
A game balancing issue so far off in a career franchise does break the game mode. The real fix would be to fix the CPU progression.

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Old 07-14-2014, 10:13 AM   #100
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyboxer
Unfortunetly (Unless this year is different) getting CPU AI tuned for different things is not a priority.
We asked a year ago or so about different things regarding CPU AI.
The answer was stuff like "Just hot route them yourself" etc.

This went back and forth as we were trying to get them to understand we were talking about when playing the CPU.
The general answer to everything was a "Playing a user vs user game doesn't have that problem" answer.

In my M25 SP franchise I skipped the practice to try and keep it fair.
I commend you for being able to brush your shoulder's off and just enjoy Madden for what it is, in spite of you knowing/still remembering stuff like this, lol. I swear man, I just haven't been able to do it, I've seen/heard too much stuff like what you referring to and it annoys me to no end just thinking about it, even worse when trying to play the actual game. I guess it's kind of like eating a hot dog once you find out how it was made and what actually went into it, it's possible to get completely turned off from it.

Tiburon seems to incubate some of the most perplexing concepts and POVs towards football gaming that I have ever heard, then try to sell them as something innovative. I have been playing all manner of video games for a long time, I have NEVER, before Madden, EVER, heard of wanting NPCs (Non-Player Characters) to be mindless drones. In fact, the best games are usually the ones were NPCs have the deepest AI routines which help bring the virtual world to life. Now in Madden they tout Living Worlds to eventually bring NPCs in the crowd/sideline to life and player sense for the NPCs on the field but then they intentionally limit it because, Madden is 1v1 football.

WTF is "1v1 football", the NFL certainly isn't and it doesn't make sense to teach Users football in Madden but not program those same lessons into the CPU/AI NPC teammates.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:37 AM   #101
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Pittbull
Im interested to see how deep they go with this. I know the game. I've played it in real life. So its probably not going to do much for guys like me who LIVE football.


I do think its a good idea as long as they stay true to making Madden a complete simulation in the future. Ive said before they(EA/Madden) have their foot in BOTH buckets right now. The have a few simulation aspects but they still have more weight in the arcade bucket. It has made some nice strides in the last few years, its just at a snails pace.


They need to get the game to the point where the gamer is FORCED to play football, not play "Madden" football. I would say this mode would help those who lack basic football knowledge and maybe if more people actually knew how to play football, they're would be less players learning to cheese/glitch/ and exploit the AI.
Whatever happened to people wanting to learn things and learn the game? People who have been playing a long time and know more about football concepts should absolutely be better than someone who is new to the game. Why dumb things down so that the average joe can compete with a Bill Walsh? The frustrating part of Madden is that it is formula driven on both sides of the ball. You play enough games (especially in a long term league) and after a season, everyone is doing the exact same things. They run the same plays, make the same adjustments (thanks youtube) and discover everything that "works".

That's why people come out in 5 wide and the guy on defense still comes out in his base D. Why not? It's all about plugging up gaps in the secondary and if he were to call quarters or dime, it just creates spacing and lanes to more easily make throws. That's why 3rd and 18 in Madden is just like 2nd and 6. Gotta make 3rd and 19 easy enough to convert so the user doesn't put the game down, right? Same goes for 22 sets. Come out in quarters in that situation. You can stop the run up the middle because the blocking logic gets hosed with a 3 man rush, and you have the sweeps and stretches covered with your incredible tackling defensive backs. This is not teaching someone real football. They will utilize this nonsense in Madden, then go watch an NFL game and wonder why the defense is playing dime and nickel on 3rd down. "Come on, you should be coming out in the 5-2 or 4-3 stack against 5 wide! It works great in madden!".

By having this massive fear that people will find the game "too hard" (which I find incredibly funny when it comes to Madden) they are ruining the game for the majority of their core fan base who actually DOES understand the game. I am all for simplification and easier game modes. That is why OPTIONS are the key to making madden please all of its fans again like it did 20 years ago. Give me the option to play the game requiring REAL football concepts. Don't teach me how to play Madden ball. Give the players individual AI instead of having them tied together as one synchronized unit. Allow proper gap assignments and pursuit logic to play out organically. Let me get as deep or as shallow as I want to get when it comes to football IQ and x's and o's. Even first person shooters do this to some degree with their different modes, i.e, hardcore mode. Put some of the task to learning the game on the user - God forbid they might actually learn something about the real game.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:53 AM   #102
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

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Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
Whatever happened to people wanting to learn things and learn the game? People who have been playing a long time and know more about football concepts should absolutely be better than someone who is new to the game. Why dumb things down so that the average joe can compete with a Bill Walsh? The frustrating part of Madden is that it is formula driven on both sides of the ball. You play enough games (especially in a long term league) and after a season, everyone is doing the exact same things. They run the same plays, make the same adjustments (thanks youtube) and discover everything that "works".

That's why people come out in 5 wide and the guy on defense still comes out in his base D. Why not? It's all about plugging up gaps in the secondary and if he were to call quarters or dime, it just creates spacing and lanes to more easily make throws. That's why 3rd and 18 in Madden is just like 2nd and 6. Gotta make 3rd and 19 easy enough to convert so the user doesn't put the game down, right? Same goes for 22 sets. Come out in quarters in that situation. You can stop the run up the middle because the blocking logic gets hosed with a 3 man rush, and you have the sweeps and stretches covered with your incredible tackling defensive backs. This is not teaching someone real football. They will utilize this nonsense in Madden, then go watch an NFL game and wonder why the defense is playing dime and nickel on 3rd down. "Come on, you should be coming out in the 5-2 or 4-3 stack against 5 wide! It works great in madden!".

By having this massive fear that people will find the game "too hard" (which I find incredibly funny when it comes to Madden) they are ruining the game for the majority of their core fan base who actually DOES understand the game. I am all for simplification and easier game modes. That is why OPTIONS are the key to making madden please all of its fans again like it did 20 years ago. Give me the option to play the game requiring REAL football concepts. Don't teach me how to play Madden ball. Give the players individual AI instead of having them tied together as one synchronized unit. Allow proper gap assignments and pursuit logic to play out organically. Let me get as deep or as shallow as I want to get when it comes to football IQ and x's and o's. Even first person shooters do this to some degree with their different modes, i.e, hardcore mode. Put some of the task to learning the game on the user - God forbid they might actually learn something about the real game.
Thank you.

The play calls that Madden allows people to get away with are crazy. Which is why I stopped playing online a couple of Maddens ago. I'm hoping with this improved defense this year that doesn't mean people will be able to just call whatever defensive formation they want, as usual. You should be forced by down and distance and offensive formation just like the NFL.

When I play someone in Madden and they pick their defense before they've seen my offensive formation I laugh inside. Tells me right away they are playing Madden and not football. I always have and always will call my defenses based on the offensive formation/down and distance. 4-3 base against 5 wide should result in the offense getting 25+ yards and running no huddle until the defensive coordinator gets fired and they make subs.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:26 PM   #103
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
I commend you for being able to brush your shoulder's off and just enjoy Madden for what it is, in spite of you knowing/still remembering stuff like this, lol. I swear man, I just haven't been able to do it, I've seen/heard too much stuff like what you referring to and it annoys me to no end just thinking about it, even worse when trying to play the actual game. I guess it's kind of like eating a hot dog once you find out how it was made and what actually went into it, it's possible to get completely turned off from it.

Tiburon seems to incubate some of the most perplexing concepts and POVs towards football gaming that I have ever heard, then try to sell them as something innovative. I have been playing all manner of video games for a long time, I have NEVER, before Madden, EVER, heard of wanting NPCs (Non-Player Characters) to be mindless drones. In fact, the best games are usually the ones were NPCs have the deepest AI routines which help bring the virtual world to life. Now in Madden they tout Living Worlds to eventually bring NPCs in the crowd/sideline to life and player sense for the NPCs on the field but then they intentionally limit it because, Madden is 1v1 football.

WTF is "1v1 football", the NFL certainly isn't and it doesn't make sense to teach Users football in Madden but not program those same lessons into the CPU/AI NPC teammates.

Frankly if it wasn't for The Show a lot of what Madden has would be fine. Just playing a game like The Show shows where we possibly could be at with an NFL game.
I do like the improvements that Madden has made it's simply been a long time getting there. That's the main issue. We should be having discussions on "The little" things that we'd like see added by now instead of basic player interactions.

However for me, in the end, the game is still fun.

I still remember playing all the old games (Intellivsion etc..) so while the game hasn't made it to where I'd like to see it, I still have good times with it as I did back with stick man football lol
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:15 AM   #104
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Gauntlet Mode Teaches You How to Play Football, Get Better at Madde

This article talks about how skills trainer will work in CFM http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...medium=twitter


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