Ever notice Madden would sometimes seem to "Cheat" or go full "Beast Mode" on you?

[trey31]

Have you ever noticed over the years that Madden consistently "cheats" or becomes unstoppable at certain points during games? I finally figured out how and why.

I've been testing Madden 08 on PC with mods and editors. There is a tag attached to every play in every playbook with a number, called PLYT (PLaY Tag). These tags are present in every playbook from Madden 04, 08, 09, 12, etc; they're on PS2, 360, PC and even PSP handheld game files. Most of these tags signify different types of run plays (dive, toss, end around, double reverse, QB sweep, sneak, etc) or what type of deep coverage is being used in a Defensive playbook (cover 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc).

Madden's AI uses these tags to determine what play to use (to counter your play choice) during the play call selection screen, and then it uses these tags again during the play to actively defend against your play call.

How do I know this?

While editing a playbook I decided to change a few tags from the right tag to the wrong tag. For instance a Running play's PLYT was changed to a Pass PLYT. The QB still hands off the ball, the RB still runs, but the Defense didn't know what to do. All of the LBs and Safeties and CBs dropped into coverage as though it was a passing play, all the way up to the point where the RB crossed the LOS. This happened consistently during testing, so that rules out it just being a fluke.

So there it is. The giant elephant in the room. Madden AI has no idea what is happening on the field at any given time, on any given play. It is simply reacting to the PLYT tag until the ball crosses the line of scrimmage. At that point it becomes rally time and all 11 defenders instantly begin to converge on the ball carrier.

So there you go. Madden's AI is waaay more simplistic than most of us thought. A little tag in the code with nothing more than one simple number has been "Spy-gating" you for years.

[itsOTTOmatic]

This makes sense, as a lot of times for example when I run a draw out of the shotgun, the CPU will set up in 3-4 or something. Like it knows I'm doing a running play when it shouldn't. Next play, still shotgun, but a pass. CPU will set up in nickel or dime. And it's not just guessing correctly or reading my sequences well or anything. It knows ahead of time.

[Dmanning2]

Yup and it gets real funky when I come out pass audible to a run and see the defense shift and move around to stop the run

[trey31]

Anybody have a Madden 15 pbo for PS3 or 360 I could take a look at? I'd be very interested to see what kind of tags 15 has going on in it. I wonder if I could take a book and edit the PLYT tags and then save and re-wrap it like I used to with roster files...



*pbo file would be an Offensive Playbook save file

[nosaints26]

So you're saying that the CPU defense essentially knows if you're calling a run or pass before you get to the LOS? If so, I have long suspected this of being true. Like previously said, run a draw play out of shotgun 4WR and you'd go up to the LOS only to find that they've called a 3-4 or some other formation effective against the run.

Why, instead of this system, can't they just tie CPU playcalling to coaching attributes?

[ripp1p]

Easy fix when they r set up in 3-4 change play to pass and when in buckle change pass to run. I do that all the time

[JG80]

Quote: Originally Posted by trey31

Anybody have a Madden 15 pbo for PS3 or 360 I could take a look at? I'd be very interested to see what kind of tags 15 has going on in it. I wonder if I could take a book and edit the PLYT tags and then save and re-wrap it like I used to with roster files... *pbo file would be an Offensive Playbook save file

Here you go!

*360 file*

[trey31]

Quote: Originally Posted by nosaints26

So you're saying that the CPU defense essentially knows if you're calling a run or pass before you get to the LOS? If so, I have long suspected this of being true. Like previously said, run a draw play out of shotgun 4WR and you'd go up to the LOS only to find that they've called a 3-4 or some other formation effective against the run. Why, instead of this system, can't they just tie CPU playcalling to coaching attributes?

Actually what I'm saying isn't that the CPU "knows" if it is a run or pass, they have chosen their play based on exactly what type of play it is; eg a Reverse, a Double Reverse, a Toss, etc. Its not just that the CPU knows if its a run, the AI knows exactly what kind of run it is AND it immediately reacts to the play the moment the ball is snapped as well.


And as far as the why? Thats simple, time and effort = money, and "they" know they can reuse the same code not only for several games, but for literally decades in some instances...

Quote: Originally Posted by JG80

Here you go! *360 file*

Thanks! Can you refresh my memory, do 360 files need to be opened in Horizon or something to decrypt them? Its been a while.