Madden's Explanation of ACC and SPD is INCORRECT!

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

Actually it IS true. I took it a step further by using both extremes. The first player is a 0 SPD and 99 ACC. The second is a 99 SPD and 99 ACC. Both players have widely different SPD ratings but the SAME ACC RATINGS. Here are the measurements after a frame by frame analysis in the attachment. As you can see, both players stop accelerating by the segment between yards 25-30. Both players have their last bit of acceleration between yards 20-25. This actually proves that what I have been saying is correct. Two players no matter what their SPD rating is (0 or 99 or anything in between) will reach their maximum velocity at the SAME TIME. The data does not lie.

In terms of the impact on the game I don't see one. They achieve maximum speed at the same time but their maximum speed is different so the guy with better speed still moves faster.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

In terms of the impact on the game I don't see one. They achieve maximum speed at the same time but their maximum speed is different so the guy with better speed still moves faster.

Wow.

The impact to me seems quite clear:

Madden can rate players more accurately compared to their real-life counterparts! Some players are great accelerators like Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles, but people erroneously attribute their acceleration to speed. What I can prove is that this is incorrect. Other players, who maybe ran slower 40 times because of their lesser ability to get up to speed quickly are actually FASTER than many players with better 40 times.

The ability to differentiate between the 2 is lacking with EA. Instead, EA is attributing a player who runs a good 40 time to having both great ACC and SPD, when in many cases, this is not the case in reality.

The implications are quite crushing to Madden's "If it's in the game" motto.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

Well I'm 36 and I def slept through math/physics classes..lol..I got it now thank u..what's ur thoughts on my second part of the question..thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven't yet done any research into the 2nd part of your question but when I do I will no doubt create a thread for it.

[majesty95]

I'm still not sure what the conclusion you are drawing is. I would assume two players with 99 ACC would accelerate at the same rate, regardless of speed. I would be more interested to see the comparison between two 99 SPD guys, one with 99 ACC and the other with 0 ACC. Then you can determine if ACC truly plays a role.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

I'm still not sure what the conclusion you are drawing is. I would assume two players with 99 ACC would accelerate at the same rate, regardless of speed. I would be more interested to see the comparison between two 99 SPD guys, one with 99 ACC and the other with 0 ACC. Then you can determine if ACC truly plays a role.

The conclusion I am drawing is that the way that Madden utilizes ACC in the game is not compatible with how real people accelerate.

I already determined that ACC controls only how quickly a player reaches their top velocity (SPD). Two players with the same ACC do NOT accelerate at the same rate. Rather, they both STOP ACCELERATING at the same DISTANCE. A player with a higher SPD rating will accelerate faster than a player with a lower SPD rating even if their ACC ratings are the same. This is because ACC only controls WHEN the players reach their top velocity, not what the top velocity and thus rate of acceleration is. Your assumption is thus, incorrect.

In an indirect way, it controls the rate of ACC by merely determining when maximum velocity kicks in and acceleration stops. Look at this attachment. The RED player has 99 ACC 99 SPD. The BLUE player has 0 ACC and 99 SPD. Both players reach the same maximum velocity of 10.70 yds/sec, but the RED player with 99 ACC gets there at 25 yards and the blue player gets there at 40 yards. Therefore, the ACC rating controls the rate of acceleration by merely setting the point in which the velocity is maximized.

[majesty95]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

The conclusion I am drawing is that the way that Madden utilizes ACC in the game is not compatible with how real people accelerate. I already determined that ACC controls only how quickly a player reaches their top velocity (SPD). Two players with the same ACC do NOT accelerate at the same rate. Rather, they both STOP ACCELERATING at the same DISTANCE. A player with a higher SPD rating will accelerate faster than a player with a lower SPD rating even if their ACC ratings are the same. This is because ACC only controls WHEN the players reach their top velocity, not what the top velocity and thus rate of acceleration is. Your assumption is thus, incorrect. In an indirect way, it controls the rate of ACC by merely determining when maximum velocity kicks in and acceleration stops. Look at this attachment. The RED player has 99 ACC 99 SPD. The BLUE player has 0 ACC and 99 SPD. Both players reach the same maximum velocity of 10.70 yds/sec, but the RED player with 99 ACC gets there at 25 yards and the blue player gets there at 40 yards. Therefore, the ACC rating controls the rate of acceleration by merely setting the point in which the velocity is maximized.

I still don't understand your issue. ACC still determines how fast a player gets to top speed. The higher the ACC, the quicker they reach top speed. Seems logical. What is your complaint?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

I still don't understand your issue. ACC still determines how fast a player gets to top speed. The higher the ACC, the quicker they reach top speed. Seems logical. What is your complaint?

My complaint is that EA does not accurately map how players really accelerate in real life. Players are accelerating too quickly and are not reaching an appropriate maximum speed. I addressed this in the OP.

[majesty95]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

My complaint is that EA does not accurately map how players really accelerate in real life. Players are accelerating too quickly and are not reaching an appropriate maximum speed. I addressed this in the OP.

This is the title of this thread "Madden's Explanation of ACC and SPD is INCORRECT!" That lends me to think you have an issue with the verbiage used to explain ACC and SPD which, to me, is irrelevant because they work in a logical manner which is all one can expect.

However, you have spent a lot of time talking about acceleration rates and comparing 0 SPD to 99 SPD etc. If you are saying that Madden accelerates players too quickly, then why isn't all of the data provided testing the speed threshold to see if there is a setting that provides a more realistic outcome?

Do you see my confusion here? The title and most of the data and arguments you have made aren't addressing what you say is you main complaint.

In any event, what is it that you propose they do? While not perfect, it seems to be a reasonable facsimile of real life, especially if it can be made better with sliders. I think that is all that we can reasonably hope for in a simulation video game.

Also, keep in mind that this game must cater to the masses, most of whom care nothing about the raw data and only how it feels and how much fun they have. EA may simply feel this setting appeals to the masses as its a little faster than normal.

I think every sports video game does this. UFC is like 10x faster than real life. NHL is considerably faster than real life. Hell, I'd bet MLB pitch and bat speeds aren't accurate to real life equivalents. Its not something that I think will ever be perfectly accurate nor do I think it needs to be to have a fun and exciting game. Personally, I'd prefer they spend their time improving WR/DB interactions, OL/DL interactions and CPU playcalling. That would do much more for the game than perfecting acceleration rates...