Sim or not sim?

[TheDominator273]

He's essentially running big dime as his base defense, which in reality is a nickel defense because the 3rd safety plays like a line backer. If his team is weak at linebacker and strong at corner and safety that's a perfectly legitimate way to play defense.

His offense is borderline though. Running consecutive plays from the same formation is fine imo as long as it's not the same play over and over. It does sound like he can get a little cheesy with the playcalling though running concepts that abuse the Ai. I would definitely be interested in watching as that might sway my opinion.

[majesty95]

I see what you are saying about D, but I'm concerned its like 1-5-5 or 3-3-5 in NCAA where the blocking AI is thrown off and its more effective than it should be. Plus, its not used like that in the NFL which is what we are trying to replicate. Also, its 4 CB and 3 S right? That should get murdered by a an I-Pro with 5 85+ OL and a TE and FB.

Personally, I would like to let guys have more freedom in making up their own schemes and even running no huddle. Unfortunately, the game just doesn't handle anything outside the "norm" well.

[TheDominator273]

Big Dome should be 2 down lineman, 3 linebackers, 3 corners and 3 safeties. Or it could be flipped for the number of backers and lineman. I think there are a few variations of it.

[ggsimmonds]

I don't really see a problem either way.

I don't think he is exploiting the AI, he is exploiting those he plays against.

"In the Super Bowl last year he, no lie, came out in Big Dime every play until I called him out on it"
I don't see the problem. On defense if I find something that works I keep with it. It is up to the offense to force him to change. And this is not cheese like the old drop almost everyone into coverage.

"On offense, his plays are all very similar."
Sounds like he actually runs an offense instead of calling random plays that he hopes would work.

He has a system on offense and defense. Judging by the information presented it does not appear like cheese that exploits poor AI and/or programming.

It is not sim to change up playcalling just for the sake of changing playcalling. This idea that it is sim to use your entire playbook is a myth. Most NFL offenses do the same stuff over and over. They just do it out of different looks or they pair it with something else that works well in tandem with the other play.

[majesty95]

Guess that's why we all have differing views of what sim is. In real life, you have humans that can talk to other humans. You can tell your linebackers to play shallower zones. You can tell your corners to play with inside leverage and actually take away slants and drags.

In this game, we are limited to what the AI allows us to do. We cannot shade our safeties to the middle. We cant get true underneath or inside/outside leverage. We cannot (easily) create man zone combos to confuse the offense. We also cannot call double teams to take away key players.

His attitude is much the same as yours gg, if you can't stop it why should I stop doing it. But there is a reason you don't see teams run 50% slants and drags in the NFL or an exaggerated amount of other routes (corners, HB screens, etc). Its because they don't work the way they do in the game. You can make adjustments in real life that AI players cannot. The goal of sim, to me, is to not exploit that advantage and to win by out smarting and out playing your opponent, not out abusing him on stuff that works far too well.

And to your point on Big Dime, why don't teams run it primarily in the NFL? I haven't seen stats, but I would bet it is pretty much only used on passing situations and probably not even a 1/4 of any team's defensive play calls. When I come out in I-Pro, I have 5 320+ lb offensive linemen, a 260lb TE and a 250 lb FB. I probably have a good 300-400 pound advantage in the front seven. That's huge in real life which is why you never see Big Dime vs those formations. In the game, not so much.

[mjavon]

I personally don't have an issue based on your description. Then again, I'm not the one who has to play against him lol. It at least doesn't sound like something that's too difficult to overcome. If he's coming out in big dime that often, come out in a big package and run it down his throat a few times. It can be difficult to stop the drag route in this game, but if you know it's coming you can at a minimum hold it to a short 2-3 yard gain most of the time. It's hard to pass any more judgement without actually seeing the video though.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

Guess that's why we all have differing views of what sim is. In real life, you have humans that can talk to other humans. You can tell your linebackers to play shallower zones. You can tell your corners to play with inside leverage and actually take away slants and drags. In this game, we are limited to what the AI allows us to do. We cannot shade our safeties to the middle. We cant get true underneath or inside/outside leverage. We cannot (easily) create man zone combos to confuse the offense. We also cannot call double teams to take away key players. His attitude is much the same as yours gg, if you can't stop it why should I stop doing it. But there is a reason you don't see teams run 50% slants and drags in the NFL or an exaggerated amount of other routes (corners, HB screens, etc). Its because they don't work the way they do in the game. You can make adjustments in real life that AI players cannot. The goal of sim, to me, is to not exploit that advantage and to win by out smarting and out playing your opponent, not out abusing him on stuff that works far too well. And to your point on Big Dime, why don't teams run it primarily in the NFL? I haven't seen stats, but I would bet it is pretty much only used on passing situations and probably not even a 1/4 of any team's defensive play calls. When I come out in I-Pro, I have 5 320+ lb offensive linemen, a 260lb TE and a 250 lb FB. I probably have a good 300-400 pound advantage in the front seven. That's huge in real life which is why you never see Big Dime vs those formations. In the game, not so much.

The game is definitely limited and I hate how many real life options are not available to us, but that does not mean we should limit our style of play.

I don't see the problem with his offense. According to your own numbers it is varied. And it is not that far off from real life. Last season for example 25% of Jay Cutler's passes came off of hitch routes. One out of four.

Matthew Stafford threw the most slants last year with 83. That averages out to 5 a game. So what this guy is doing is not ridiculously unrealistic.

Not saying this applies to you, but some gamers play lazy. Your comment regarding I Form vs big dime reminds me of this. I see it frequently and hell, I do the same myself some times. We see dime defense and use a big set to run the ball but that is about the extent of the thought we put into it. Know what I mean? We see dime and we call HB dive and then blame the game if we do not have the expected success.

Another thing to consider is the mindset of many gamers. Obviously I have never played in your league but I see this all the time. Gamers tend to be impatient and we lack composure. I do not see too many 10 play drives in Madden. If you want to beat his dime defense you have to run, but many gamers do not have the patience to move at ~4 yards a clip so they rather pass. Something we are probably all guilty of, how many times after getting 3 good runs are you tempted to go vertical off of playaction? sounds like he may be playing to that. Then it typically does not take much to get a guy to change his gameplan. How many times have you played a guy who started out doing one thing, then you get a early lead on him and he drastically changes his playcalling?

Sounds like the guy is extremely predictable. That should make it easier to beat him. You know the personnel groupings. Scan the matchups for something favorable and exploit that. It could be as simple as putting your #1 WR in the slot and calling plays designed to get him the ball. If his tendencies stay the same turn it to an advantage. He calls a lot of cover 3? Then call plays designed to beat cover 3 and adjust your audibles.

Granted all this is typed with the large caveat that I have never played him nor have I seen his gameplay. So I could be entirely wrong

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

Guess that's why we all have differing views of what sim is. In real life, you have humans that can talk to other humans. You can tell your linebackers to play shallower zones. You can tell your corners to play with inside leverage and actually take away slants and drags. In this game, we are limited to what the AI allows us to do. We cannot shade our safeties to the middle. We cant get true underneath or inside/outside leverage. We cannot (easily) create man zone combos to confuse the offense. We also cannot call double teams to take away key players. His attitude is much the same as yours gg, if you can't stop it why should I stop doing it. But there is a reason you don't see teams run 50% slants and drags in the NFL or an exaggerated amount of other routes (corners, HB screens, etc). Its because they don't work the way they do in the game. You can make adjustments in real life that AI players cannot. The goal of sim, to me, is to not exploit that advantage and to win by out smarting and out playing your opponent, not out abusing him on stuff that works far too well. And to your point on Big Dime, why don't teams run it primarily in the NFL? I haven't seen stats, but I would bet it is pretty much only used on passing situations and probably not even a 1/4 of any team's defensive play calls. When I come out in I-Pro, I have 5 320+ lb offensive linemen, a 260lb TE and a 250 lb FB. I probably have a good 300-400 pound advantage in the front seven. That's huge in real life which is why you never see Big Dime vs those formations. In the game, not so much.

Fantastic explanation. This is exactly what I think of when I think of sim play as well