Madden #2 Top Selling Game in 2014 Even Without Some Penalties Called

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hester

The only other Madden game I've played for more than a week since last century was Madden 10. I won't be surprised if I hit 1000 hours of time with Madden 15. I think it is outstanding. But since I've been playing football games since Mattel handhelds, and including a range of Sims on the PC, I've more than learned how to enjoy what a game does, even if it fails in some areas, like every game ever made. Madden 15 is just a fun version of football, and has hit a balance between gameplay and realism that I haven't felt since NFL 2K5. Realism and simulation matters, but fun does trump it. When FBPro died off on the PC, I realized that there was not even strong enough niche for full on SIM to support a PC game. When I jumped from PC to console centric sports gaming, I did so with the understanding that I was trading some realism for more fun. I willingly go years skipping certain sports because of the lack of fun in so many iterations. Madden jumped into the mix,although I won't be shocked if I hate Madden 16. I'll still buy it day one because I enjoyed the current game so much.

I just don't get this notion that fun and realism are at odds, in a freaking simulation video game. Who has ever been disappointed or bored with any simulation video game because it was too realistic? This concept is so asinine to me and I have never heard of it until EA started spouting it, whenever it suits their interests.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I just don't get this notion that fun and realism are at odds, in a freaking simulation video game. Who has ever been disappointed or bored with any simulation video game because it was too realistic? This concept is so asinine to me and I have never heard of it until EA started spouting it, whenever it suits their interests.

It's not as far-fetched as you think, though.

We have a particular mind set out there on video game football realism. There are other factions of the Madden universe that don't agree with us.

My nephew was/is one of them. He was in his early 20's and I was talking about more realistic football in Madden several years ago and he said, you are trying to make it too complicated.

There are other 20 somethings out there that feel the same way he does.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

...My nephew was/is one of them. He was in his early 20's and I was talking about more realistic football in Madden several years ago and he said, you are trying to make it too complicated...

I believe realism & difficulty are separate issues. The game doesn't have to be hard to be realistic.

But my definition of realistic has nothing to do with scores or stats. It has everything to do with virtual players thinking & moving more like their real-life counterparts.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I believe realism & difficulty are separate issues. The game doesn't have to be hard to be realistic. But my definition of realistic has nothing to do with scores or stats. It has everything to do with virtual players thinking & moving more like their real-life counterparts.

And that's just it, everyone's interpretations are different.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

And that's just it, everyone's interpretations are different.

I don't intend for my frustration with this topic to come across rude, so if it does, I apologize Road because I have much respect for you. That said, I'm not seeing any other way this could be interpreted, to echo Bezo's point, by your own wording, your nephew isn't against realism, he's against difficulty. That would mean even if Madden implemented a whole list of complicated arcade controls like Street Fighter, gamers like him would be against it because they make the game more complicated, nothing to do with realism. In simulation sports video games, realism is the fundamental selling point, if that weren't true the NFL branding would be moot.

I would bet that almost no one would be against even Madden being as realistic as a game like The Show IF there were sufficient UI options for varying skill levels. No reasonable person plays a NBA basketball video game and thinks having fouls, free throws, timeouts, varying player capabilities, etc is too realistic, that's what they expect in that type of game. Ditto for Madden yet EA/Tiburon pushes the absurd notion that realistic elements like those diminish the fun factor and would make the game too complicated, whenever they can't and/or won't implement them that is. Yet then turn around and tout existing or newly implemented realistic elements, as innovations that enhance this "NFL simulation video game". EA obviously doesn't believe their own rhetoric, evidenced by the way they constantly contradict it with their actions, so I don't understand why others would.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I don't intend for my frustration with this topic to come across rude, so if it does, I apologize Road because I have much respect for you. That said, I'm not seeing any other way this could be interpreted, to echo Bezo's point, by your own wording, your nephew isn't against realism, he's against difficulty. That would mean even if Madden implemented a whole list of complicated arcade controls like Street Fighter, gamers like him would be against it because they make the game more complicated, nothing to do with realism. In simulation sports video games, realism is the fundamental selling point, if that weren't true the NFL branding would be moot. I would bet that almost no one would be against even Madden being as realistic as a game like The Show IF there were sufficient UI options for varying skill levels. No reasonable person plays a NBA basketball video game and thinks having fouls, free throws, timeouts, varying player capabilities, etc is too realistic, that's what they expect in that type of game. Ditto for Madden yet EA/Tiburon pushes the absurd notion that realistic elements like those diminish the fun factor and would make the game too complicated, whenever they can't and/or won't implement them that is. Yet then turn around and tout existing or newly implemented realistic elements, as innovations that enhance this "NFL simulation video game". EA obviously doesn't believe their own rhetoric, evidenced by the way they constantly contradicted it with their actions, so I don't understand why others would.

Big, I didn't see it coming across as being rude, but I know my nephew, too.

He doesn't want to spend more time on a game than he already does. Heck, for me, it takes 1hr and 15 minutes to complete a game.

He doesn't want to see bad snaps from center, more penalties than needed, snaps going over the punters and place holders head, etc.....

In the ideal world, he would want to toggle a switch to arcade mode, but, we aren't living in that world at this stage.

I wasn't clear with what he meant by complicated, initially. Madden, in it's current state, is fine with him.

[GiantBlue76]

Just to put this in perspective, this notion that the majority of people think a "complicated" game won't be fun is completely false. The fact is, by providing depth and options like all advanced games at this point in time, you can be accessible to all audiences. NBA 2k, The Show, NHL and other games of the past have always done this. For some reason, the Madden developers seem to exist in some strange vacuum where a language is spoken that only they understand. Madden is a party favor. It is nothing close to the most realistic football game made. Not even close. It is full of bugs, sloppy issues and terrible programming on top of ridiculously idiotic design decisions. However, if you don't know any better, you would think it is OK because you haven't played anything else.

NBA 2k is incredibly daunting due to its depth, however, I can play it because there are so many options I can customize the game 100% to my liking. In Madden, I have arcade and "more" arcade. Nothing changes and, in fact, the sliders don't even work. They don't even know what the ratings do or if certain ratings even matter and it's their game! It's completely absurd and it has some sort of mental hypnosis over a lot of people. That hypnosis is actually delusion, however. It is the frustration of wanting the game to be good so badly, that people will go to great lengths to convince themselves (and others) that it is far better than it really is. When we were growing up, we enjoyed playing sports games because they allowed us to transport ourselves into our favorite franchise and live through our superstar heros! It created a fantasy. Whenever something happened in a game that mimicked real life, we yelled to our friends, "did you see that?! That was awesome!". Why did we do that? Because we were amazed that we saw something that mirrored what we see in real life. THAT is what made it so fun. What makes the game NOT FUN, is when I constantly see scripted outcomes, players reaching through bodies to force an outcome, balls bouncing 25 yards across the field, no penalties or realistic running and movement, etc. etc. That's frustrating, it's not fun. There is never a moment in Madden when you say, "WOW, That was awesome!!". Instead, you say, "Wow, look at my RT stand up, turn his back and block no one while hunched over". It's embarrassing. The NFL sells Madden - 'Madden' doesn't sell madden. Strip the license away from Madden and it's probably the worst football game we've ever had.

I feel bad for the younger gamers who never had a chance to experience the revolutionary football titles like we did. The developers who made those products had real talent and really had a passion for what they did. They didn't brag that you could throw a pass over a linebacker or that the wind meter actually pointed in the right direction. They didn't block you on twitter when the game disconnected if you had different camera options than your opponent. They didn't constantly complain how hard it is to make a football game. They simply made great products that set a new bar every year.

[roadman]

All I'm saying is that my nephew is pretty similar to other mainstream Madden video game buyers.

To us, adding realism is what it is all about and should be.

If my nephew doesn't think it will be fun, and I've gone round and round with him on this, I'm not changing his mind.

At that point, it's to each their own, but he isn't the lone ranger in that thinking.