Pass Coverage in Madden 15/16

[xCoachDx]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Fact is, still, there is always weak points in any coverage...Specifically zone, in this case... Could the LB's be closer? yes..but only the MLB has a tendency to drop excessively deep...

There are multiple issues with the passing game other than just the MLB's. CB's in flat zones drift too far downfield, safeties in Cover 2 will frequently be over the top of an inside WR (in great position) but they let their WR easily get to the outside and simply trail behind them. If a WR has completed a curl route, DB's will stand right behind them and let them catch an easy pass (Never understood this one. PS2 Maddens played this route perfectly. But those were the good days.)

I think a good fix would be just to change the zone areas. Imagine a circle similar to what a QB Spy looks like on the Coach Cam for hook zones. This would designate LBs to cover in front of them as well as behind them.

I also feel like there's some glitch with defensive player movements. Stand still with a defensive player. Then try to move in a certain direction. See how long it takes? Seems very broken. But this has been an issue for three years. Again, not something that has ever been pointed out as an area of concern by EA.

[xCoachDx]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThatMichiganFan

The high completion percentage was not due to the defense, rather the pinpoint accuracy of almost every QB. In my opinion (as one who never played tackle football), most zone defenses work very well. Most zone defenses will play over the top, as opposed to underneath in order to limit big plays. If you really want, audible to underneath coverage. This should make your players play shallower and below the reviewers, but this will open you up for some big plays against you.

We've already pointed out that toggling to underneath coverage does not help with this issue. The zones are not set to cover short areas of the field, and coverage audibles do not shift the zones in any direction. They only change how the defenders will play the receivers once they have entered their zone. (And even then, I feel like this doesn't work half the time.)

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by xCoachDx

There are multiple issues with the passing game other than just the MLB's. CB's in flat zones drift too far downfield, safeties in Cover 2 will frequently be over the top of an inside WR (in great position) but they let their WR easily get to the outside and simply trail behind them. If a WR has completed a curl route, DB's will stand right behind them and let them catch an easy pass (Never understood this one. PS2 Maddens played this route perfectly. But those were the good days.) I think a good fix would be just to change the zone areas. Imagine a circle similar to what a QB Spy looks like on the Coach Cam for hook zones. This would designate LBs to cover in front of them as well as behind them. I also feel like there's some glitch with defensive player movements. Stand still with a defensive player. Then try to move in a certain direction. See how long it takes? Seems very broken. But this has been an issue for three years. Again, not something that has ever been pointed out as an area of concern by EA.

And Player Ratings have to also be taken into consideration..Defenders will get burned if there is no pass rush...I am seeing a lack of a solid pass rush in M16...

The flat zones may be covered better, but it appears that Madden is using the "Bend but don't break," method of defense...Former Defensive Coordinator Fritz Shurmur is a great example of this type of defense...

I believe EA wants the user to take control of a player and make a difference; so not everything is perfect, not just because of a lack of proper player logic being programmed, but because the game is supposed to be about the user showing the skills beyond just calling a play...

FOr example; when I have a RB lined up to the weak or strong side, I take over the defender covering that flat zone so I can run it properly...

I do see what you are describing and I agree it could be better; I just wonder how much is left loose by EA to force the user to be the key player and thus the play maker...

[GameBreaker35]

Quote: Originally Posted by xCoachDx

There are multiple issues with the passing game other than just the MLB's. CB's in flat zones drift too far downfield, safeties in Cover 2 will frequently be over the top of an inside WR (in great position) but they let their WR easily get to the outside and simply trail behind them. If a WR has completed a curl route, DB's will stand right behind them and let them catch an easy pass (Never understood this one. PS2 Maddens played this route perfectly. But those were the good days.) I think a good fix would be just to change the zone areas. Imagine a circle similar to what a QB Spy looks like on the Coach Cam for hook zones. This would designate LBs to cover in front of them as well as behind them. I also feel like there's some glitch with defensive player movements. Stand still with a defensive player. Then try to move in a certain direction. See how long it takes? Seems very broken. But this has been an issue for three years. Again, not something that has ever been pointed out as an area of concern by EA.

Cover 2 corners playing the flat are often responsible for taking vertical routes all the way up the field creating a bracket on the deep route. It looks alot like Cover 2 man if that happens.

This all boils down to understanding. For someone like me who wants true to life schemes and spend alot of time reading coaching books, listening to coaching clinics, and watching film, it is great to see them implement some of that stuff. The problem is that if they went all the way through with it, most of you would be complaining that it was too difficult to pass because it does take some knowledge to beat - and knowledge is something that takes time. I don't think many of you would enjoy realistic coverage because no one buys a game that they have to study for to be successful - they buy it to have fun and relax.

For all of you that want spot droping though, go play NCAA 14 for just a few games. That game has that almost perfectly, but guess what? The passing game is wide open and frustratingly simple to beat and get beat by. That's why, even though it's not perfect, I enjoy the zone defense much better in this year's Madden. It can be exploited, but it's getting better.

[xCoachDx]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameBreaker35

Cover 2 corners playing the flat are often responsible for taking vertical routes all the way up the field creating a bracket on the deep route. It looks alot like Cover 2 man if that happens. This all boils down to understanding. For someone like me who wants true to life schemes and spend alot of time reading coaching books, listening to coaching clinics, and watching film, it is great to see them implement some of that stuff. The problem is that if they went all the way through with it, most of you would be complaining that it was too difficult to pass because it does take some knowledge to beat - and knowledge is something that takes time. I don't think many of you would enjoy realistic coverage because no one buys a game that they have to study for to be successful - they buy it to have fun and relax. For all of you that want spot droping though, go play NCAA 14 for just a few games. That game has that almost perfectly, but guess what? The passing game is wide open and frustratingly simple to beat and get beat by. That's why, even though it's not perfect, I enjoy the zone defense much better in this year's Madden. It can be exploited, but it's getting better.

Not sure how a CB taking his man all the way downfield is considered Cover 2. I've worked under 6 coaches so far in my short coaching career and never seen a philosophy implemented like that. But regardless there are more issues than just that.

Watch the DB's movements. I'm seeing the WR's break, and the DB takes 2 more steps before running with them. More of a game breaker than anything.

[GameBreaker35]

Quote: Originally Posted by xCoachDx

Not sure how a CB taking his man all the way downfield is considered Cover 2. I've worked under 6 coaches so far in my short coaching career and never seen a philosophy implemented like that. But regardless there are more issues than just that. Watch the DB's movements. I'm seeing the WR's break, and the DB takes 2 more steps before running with them. More of a game breaker than anything.

The problem is you are comparing apples to oranges. Your coaching experience is, judging by your responses in this thread, limited to high-school football and lower. There is nothing wrong with that; in fact, its the same level that I'm at as well, but it doesn't equate to how professional schemes are implemented. When we teach our kids concepts, we teach them simple concepts - like dropping to a spot and defending that area based on what we call. We don't have a lot of time, and players aren't developed enough to understand all that we could possibly throw at them - we want them to play fast and play confident with in the system after all.

When you step to the next level though, it takes a violent learning curve. I know that you don't believe me, but everything that I stated before is, in fact, real coverage philosophy in the NFL. What you want is for the development team to go back to spot dropping because you understand that - and you also seemed unaware that such schemes even existed. It's ironic that the type of coverage you want disappeared in real life because of the very reason your complaining - it gets beat all day every day. I want them to FULLY implement match coverage instead , but I doubt I ever see that. People would come on here saying the game is broken because the defense is too good.

Perfect reason to have a Simulation Setting by the way...Rex if your listening?

[GameBreaker35]

Also, I forgot to mention that I do hate the body positioning of players in coverage. There's no true bio-mechanical foundation for player movement. Its all animation driven on an X and Y axis, which makes a defender's hip position irrelevant in the outcome of defending a pass or not.

Its those little things that, even if you didn't know what you were looking for, make the game look awkward in motion - like robots and not athletes. Not to mention they should affect outcomes...

[xCoachDx]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameBreaker35

The problem is you are comparing apples to oranges. Your coaching experience is, judging by your responses in this thread, limited to high-school football and lower. There is nothing wrong with that; in fact, its the same level that I'm at as well, but it doesn't equate to how professional schemes are implemented. When we teach our kids concepts, we teach them simple concepts - like dropping to a spot and defending that area based on what we call. We don't have a lot of time, and players aren't developed enough to understand all that we could possibly throw at them - we want them to play fast and play confident with in the system after all. When you step to the next level though, it takes a violent learning curve. I know that you don't believe me, but everything that I stated before is, in fact, real coverage philosophy in the NFL. What you want is for the development team to go back to spot dropping because you understand that - and you also seemed unaware that such schemes even existed. It's ironic that the type of coverage you want disappeared in real life because of the very reason your complaining - it gets beat all day every day. I want them to FULLY implement match coverage instead , but I doubt I ever see that. People would come on here saying the game is broken because the defense is too good. Perfect reason to have a Simulation Setting by the way...Rex if your listening?

Regardless of anything you have said, SOMETHING isn't done properly because the flat area is left completely open too often. But I mean if that's real life..