We Have To Work Together Not Tear Each Other Down

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrXySOsexy

Agreed. But all criticism is never going to be constructive. That's an expectation that isn't realistic. I'm not saying YOU personally expect that, but that's what I get from what I see often. But does that now mean that anything deemed non-constructive (and keep in mind that very standard is subjective to begin with) has to be met with bazooka-level consequences? There is a difference between non-constructive and trolling. Trolling is when you post things with the purpose of inciting anger from an audience, and this is not even close to norm of the posts I see. Most posts are simply passionately disappointed with the state of Madden. So can we examine why it's okay to be passionate at the level as long as you're positive about the game, but if you're equally negative you now get the scarlet letter? Where is the balance in that? Now, you mentioned a poster saying something you deemed out of turn. Fair enough. But aren't the developers adults? Let me ask you most serious question here, and I'm asking everybody, mods included, don't you think that if a developer is willing to disengage over something like that then maybe that speaks to a larger problem within that develop team? Let's be real, the majority of the world that plays Madden LOVES Madden, but they're also frustrated by issues here and there. But if you're a developer and you're passionate about getting better, than even one bad apple shouldn't deter you from anything that can help you do that. The minute you start doing that, you're undermining your own mission. Look at how Natural Motion handled criticism? It was terrible, and look at how that product turned out? It turned out like utter crap. Truth is, Madden would be a lot further behind if Tiburon didn't start taking community input in '08-'09. It is a better game because of it. Yet, it's still not the BEST game that it should be, and that's why people remain rightfully critical and should until it gets there. Other sports games are "there", gamers can see that and they communicate seeing it, and that doesn't help Madden's situation either.

Good post.

By the way, the other posters in that thread mentioned above had the same thoughts as I did, so, I wasn't the lone ranger on that one.

Well, I'm only going by the rules of this site and inside this forum, post are required to be constructive, nothing more or nothing less. As far as the consequences go, that isn't up to me to decide.

Let me ask you a question? Do you think all adults are alike and should be able to take all shots fired at them. The posters at this site ran off 2 developers under the Ian era with personal threats and worse. Do you think that has changed since the time Ian has left?

Case in point, last week, Kolbe, the CFM Developer for Madden on a different site, told some of the audience members to start being more constructive as he has a wife and two kids at home. You tell me.

[MrXySOsexy]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Good post. By the way, the other posters in that thread mentioned above had the same thoughts as I did, so, I wasn't the lone ranger on that one. Well, I'm only going by the rules of this site and inside this forum, post are required to be constructive, nothing more or nothing less. As far as the consequences go, that isn't up to me to decide. Let me ask you a question? Do you think all adults are alike and should be able to take all shots fired at them. The posters at this site ran off 2 developers under the Ian era with personal threats and worse. Do you think that has changed since the time Ian has left? Case in point, last week, Kolbe, the CFM Developer for Madden on a different site, told some of the audience members to start being more constructive as he has a wife and two kids at home. You tell me.

That's the thing where I agree though. If somebody is threatening anybody, they should be cut and the authorities should be contacted quite honestly. If someone is cursing at someone or picking on them, dev or otherwise, get rid of them. Nobody has time for that.

But if you think the dev team is bad or that the game is bad, and you can specifically point out why (which is what I see most of the attacked posts actually doing) there should be no problem because you're just a fan criticizing the product and/or the team making it no different from people criticizing the team the Packers put on the field or the front office that puts that team together. There are a lot of good posters that added incredibly useful info now gone just because this whole thing has gotten needlessly over-sensitive.

[CM Hooe]

I don't know if I agree with the position that the community is at fault for bugs an inaccuracies in the game. I think Rex Dickson and his team have already claimed accountability for bugs in the game, as well they should given they made the thing. However, I agree with the spirit of the post that the community could be more helpful to the end of identifying those errors to developers and getting them fixed.

I think the uniform thread in this forum is a good example of how things can be done positively. KANE699, who works at Tiburon, is an active participant in this forum and keeps tabs on the uniform / equipment / player likeness threads to make sure the game and roster updates are as accurate as possible. That's not to say there are never errors, but the community is identifying those errors in a constructive way and in turn there is a vigilant effort on Tiburon's side to stamp all the errors out as they are found.

[mastershake88]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I don't know if I agree with the position that the community is at fault for bugs an inaccuracies in the game. I think Rex Dickson and his team have already claimed accountability for bugs in the game, as well they should given they made the thing. However, I agree with the spirit of the post that the community could be more helpful to the end of identifying those errors to developers and getting them fixed. I think the uniform thread in this forum is a good example of how things can be done positively. KANE699, who works at Tiburon, is an active participant in this forum and keeps tabs on the uniform / equipment / player likeness threads to make sure the game and roster updates are as accurate as possible. That's not to say there are never errors, but the community is identifying those errors in a constructive way and in turn there is a vigilant effort on Tiburon's side to stamp all the errors out as they found.

And that's exactly what I'm getting at. I say we( we in general not we directly) should take blame because when opportunities like that appear, "we" need to forget about the past and move forward to help. People like the dude who was banned in this forum does the exact thing I am saying that hinders our progression with moving forward. Imagine how awesome it would be if you had a collective collaboration between developers and the posters?

Its just like when I used to paint, yeah paint gets on the carpet, but if you apply hot water and solve the issue it makes the solution better. Same thing here yeah EA is not perfect and they dropped paint on the carpet, but some of us know that hot water can clean it up. What some do around here is talk about the spill. But the smart ones grab the hot water. If people can help, then help. But even adults don't like being scorned. I'll take the effort to reach out any day. And that is something I never got from David Ortiz lol.

[number1thumbs]

Really am happy with the effort this year. But, you can't tell me the ps3 and 360 generation didn't upset you with whomever was in charge at the time. There a a lot of tater tots to easily replace the one one the floor, but there's only one licensed football video game. NFL gaming from '06 until this new generation was pretty atrocious, and that made me quite sad for 8 years

[mastershake88]

Quote: Originally Posted by number1thumbs

Really am happy with the effort this year. But, you can't tell me the ps3 and 360 generation didn't upset you with whomever was in charge at the time. There a a lot of tater tots to easily replace the one one the floor, but there's only one licensed football video game. NFL gaming from '06 until this new generation was pretty atrocious, and that made me quite sad for 8 years

I said all of that in the intro my man lol.

[number1thumbs]

Quote: Originally Posted by mastershake88

I said all of that in the intro my man lol.

Sorry, but i don't see it in the OP..not trying to be argumentative. I am all for constructive criticism and positive energy going to solve problems.

The thing is that there have always been heavily modded bug threads, wishlist threads, etc during that whole generation. And every iteration still had legacy issues that just seemed obvious and nonsensical, yet somehow made it through each year. You should understand if consumers are still a bit jaded and cynical.

Again, I applaud their effort this year and am looking forward to diving into cfm once the patch hits!

[mastershake88]

Quote: Originally Posted by number1thumbs

Sorry, but i don't see it in the OP..not trying to be argumentative. I am all for constructive criticism and positive energy going to solve problems. The thing is that there have always been heavily modded bug threads, wishlist threads, etc during that whole generation. And every iteration still had legacy issues that just seemed obvious and nonsensical, yet somehow made it through each year. You should understand if consumers are still a bit jaded and cynical. Again, I applaud their effort this year and am looking forward to diving into cfm once the patch hits!

I agree and also it provides anwsome opportunity to work together and make things happen.