New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people off?

[Yazan Gable]

Problem being that things that influence that realistic number include how long the games are with regards to the game clock (most people don't play with a 15 minute clock because you can run the score up very easily), the fact that you're not playing through the eyes of the QB but from a camera above and behind them so you can read the field much better than a real QB has to, the number of 3 and outs you get is dependent on your skill (if you're not bad at the game, you're probably playing closer to Aaron Rodgers than Aaron Corp), etc.

There are so many things that cannot be sim simply because it's a video game and we can make more well-informed decisions because we're at home playing in the comfort of our home with a camera above the QB to survey the entire field or as a defender with the camera surveying the entire field. If you yourself are a good enough player you can take Josh McCown and the Cleveland Browns to the Super Bowl on a perfect season and win. And while some would blame the game's AI and a variety of other issues with the mechanics, another big part of it is simply the fact that we are controlling the game and our skill is influencing the successes of players that should be terrible.

I am amazed, looking through sim franchise guidelines, how much people will gimp themselves in unrealistic manners to achieve "sim" production. Limiting play calling and the type of plays they can use, when they can use them, what kinds of trades and contracts you can make, as if there aren't inexplicable contracts and terrible trades made all the time in real life. That coaches don't abuse plays that work, that coaches haven't run hurry-up offenses the entire game like the 80s Bengals and 90s Bills and every Peyton Manning team. "Sim" play, from some of the people I have read, has to fit this narrow set of guidelines of what they consider football to be. Asking for a balance of running and passing that isn't realistic of football teams. Vikings and Rams are going to run the ball way more than the Patriots, and yet some sim guidelines require both teams to have a similar split in play calls. Some people want to see realistic running and passing statistics by the end of the game, but most players are probably not gonna sit for over an hour to play a single game with a 15 minute clock and the clock not accelerated (because it's not sim and sometimes teams call plays early and some teams call plays very late according to game situation.)

My point, I suppose, is that some of these things being complained about are about how the players themselves will play and how it can't really be replicated because of the time wasted and the fact that you will always read offenses and defenses better than any player or coach ever will because of the camera and the range of controls and decisions you can make. Pattern matching in zone coverage and gap assignments are big changes to the gameplay to make it more realistic, but instead I see complaining about how things will never be as they "should" be and how things aren't great like they "used" to be. It really makes those complaining sound immensely entitled as to what game they "deserve" to have and if it is not sim down to the wristbands on Deandre Smelter's arms and somehow having eliminated clipping in video games so Von Miller's hand isn't slightly in Cam Newton's leg on a tackle then don't buy the game until they've finally done that. Talking about special teams blocking and NCAA equipment as if it is more important than implementing gap assignments and pattern matching is absolutely ridiculous. Talking about their focus being on "CFM/special teams/equipment" as if the aforementioned big changes to how defense is played hasn't been one of their big talking points for core fans. Development teams have changed, the engine has changed, this is a group that has been steadily improving the game from where it was when they took over and they've let it be known that they're taking in all suggestions and working through them according to what is considered high priority. In the meantime, complain about how terrible things are and how it will never be what we want.

[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by tosa

I get that and agree ....very aware the two aren't close to the same thing in importance. Merely noticing a change in the perception of this group of developers by many.

I get it but there comes a point in time when delivering the same rhetoric over and over with limited results, no longer sits well with people.

[howboutdat]

Quote: Originally Posted by tosa

I get that and agree ....very aware the two aren't close to the same thing in importance. Merely noticing a change in the perception of this group of developers by many.

yeah i get that, and here is what i think you are seeing. they released info only in may.People said , ok all this sounds good.... got some more excited than others. Now video is coming out, and we seeing some of the same mess we saw last year.CFM was hyped to be some big improvement, yet it was not, which was not even told to us any details until almost mid june. So id account it more to those things.

People finally seeing it , and realizing , things are not as they seemed. They said they improved pass blocking, but still olinemen watch defender 1on1 go right by them, looking right at them, and dont bother to touch them...i could go on but wont.Its well documented.Thing is , they need to stop promising so much and delivering so little,bottom line. Dont care if its short dev time or what, dont say it period. Only say what you actually have done and works well.

If the fact is , its not really all that much and they are affriad people will be on their case for not doing as much, well , thats on them to step up , get more people working on it.Its not like this game dont make EA millions upon millions upon millions. Im quite frankly tired of hearing the short dev cycle excuse.Hire more people, you can afford it and still make millions upon millions.

[dkp23]

If this game still allows hot routing all eligible receiver positions without consequence, clearly, their goal isnt fully sim. They want to do just enough for both sides and in the end, the game ends up being very similar than the previous installment. There hasn't been much int he videos i've watched to think any different.

I just read everybody see these great improvements and when the game drops, people will go back to complaining about the same exact things. It is the ongoing cycle every year.

[MountaineersSon]

Quote: Originally Posted by dkp23

If this game still allows hot routing all eligible receiver positions without consequence, clearly, their goal isnt fully sim. They want to do just enough for both sides and in the end, the game ends up being very similar than the previous installment. There hasn't been much int he videos i've watched to think any different. I just read everybody see these great improvements and when the game drops, people will go back to complaining about the same exact things. It is the ongoing cycle every year.

In the wishlist I had mentioned wanting to see longer hot route animations out of the QB whether trying to communicate with recievers or lineman. Madden has a weird animation, like a really quick short left arm right arm animation.

QB's should literally come up out of center with a longer animation to communicate hot routes and line checks. On the road and especially a road playoff game should render even longer animations.

Couple all of this with a shortened play clock, now that's a tough sim environment to get off checks.

[Cowboy008]

Quote: Originally Posted by MountaineersSon

In the wishlist I had mentioned wanting to see longer hot route animations out of the QB whether trying to communicate with recievers or lineman. Madden has a weird animation, like a really quick short left arm right arm animation. QB's should literally come up out of center with a longer animation to communicate hot routes and line checks. On the road and especially a road playoff game should render even longer animations. Couple all of this with a shortened play clock, now that's a tough sim environment to get off checks.

I liked the way NCAA did it. They also had more than a few animations.

[MountaineersSon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cowboy008

I liked the way NCAA did it. They also had more than a few animations.

Yeah this I remember. Also remember the question marks over recievers heads. I think even question marks over lineman heads after trying to change assignments would be total sim.

The user would really have to think about killing the assignment change.

It should be tough on a user with a young or backup Qb to get multiple hot routes in without confusion.

[dkp23]

Quote: Originally Posted by MountaineersSon

In the wishlist I had mentioned wanting to see longer hot route animations out of the QB whether trying to communicate with recievers or lineman. Madden has a weird animation, like a really quick short left arm right arm animation. QB's should literally come up out of center with a longer animation to communicate hot routes and line checks. On the road and especially a road playoff game should render even longer animations. Couple all of this with a shortened play clock, now that's a tough sim environment to get off checks.

I understand your point, but two different things. The animation for communication prevents quick hot routes, but regardless of how quick or slow you can call hot routes, what i dont think is sim is that any player can hot route any receiver at anytime and have the 100% accuracy on the adjustment.

This is one of the primary factors of lobby ball, creating a different play every down which ends up being the same hot routes creating the same route concepts to manipulate the defensive AI.