Why are preseason cuts handled this way?

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Consider that the vast majority of Madden users don't post on Operation Sports and don't know this shortcoming of the game. Consider also that many Madden users may now use Play The Moments to get through Franchise games now, and offensive line injuries do in-fact occur in Play The Moments.

True. Sim injuries. But I just don't see why anyone would sim but that's me.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

This is it right here. Has nothing to do with the complexity of cuts. EA/Tib feels the need to Manufacture things to do during the preseason, so they come up with arcade solutions. In the process they are watering the game down.

No. This is not it. This is not it at all.

Tiburon does not artificially manufacture reasons to dumb down the game to specifically make you and other hardcore Madden fans angry that they are abandoning The One True Principle Of "Sim". The people who draw up the features of Madden NFL to implement are professional AAA video game designers making informed decisions based upon years of experience with dozens of credited titles across all disciplines of video games which will benefit the vast majority of their player base.

We can't have a reasonable and legitimate discussion about the game design of Madden NFL unless you are willing to entertain the viewpoint of a potential consumer who is not already a hardcore NFL and Madden NFL fan. You are clearly not willing to consider that viewpoint and rather have some other point you're seeking to prove in mind, so we're done here.

[Mr.Tennessee]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

True. Sim injuries. But I just don't see why anyone would sim but that's me.

Lol everyone doesn't have the time to play 20+ plus full games per season to get deeper in CFM. A lot of people like the roster management/off-season decisions which are better as you get deeper and the real people retire.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

The most basic example of this in action: suppose I want to decide between keeping a sixth wide receiver or a tenth offensive lineman as the last man on the roster. This is but the most trivial case in the final stages of the process. Another example: keeping two vs three vs four quarterbacks (cutting down to three isn't a given at all). In choosing those final seven players, the user isn't obligated to keep the players with the best OVR, and often times that doesn't happen because the lower OVR player is a valued rookie, a longtime veteran who is a personal favorite, or whatever other reason. The user may have to compare two players with the same OVR even and decide between them. In that case, there is no definitive "best" player to pick; the user must compare and decide. Sometimes two different players will have the same OVR at different positions as well; in that case, there absolutely is a cross-position comparison.

The flaw here is if somebody is examining cuts in such depth as you describe, which is there option, then they don't need "Dead Simple" and choosing to cut 12 at the end wouldn't overwhelm them.

Your whole argument is to make things Dead Simple and mindless. You are having Big Decisions tell you who to cut and therefor greatly limiting your options. So you're calculations are inaccurate if we are using Big Decisions for all cuts in week 4 of preseason. Your decisions are only a combination of the max Big Decisions would allow (say 22 a choice of 12 to cut and 10 Practice Squad) choose 12 to cut. That greatly reduces the combinations from your 29 choose 17.

I mean, your reducing each week to 5 choose 2 limited by Big Decisions. Why can't Big Decisions limit week 4 to simplify all cuts in week 4 of preseason?

Looking at certain individual attributes, the decision to cut someone can be fairly easy to make. Your only real decisions are the fringe ones, where players are close in ability/value.

I think you are WAY exaggerating the difficulty in making roster cuts and greatly underestimating someones ability to process information. Big Decision cuts each week is unnecessary. I feel pretty confident that it's only real purpose is to manufacture something to do each week in the preseason.

This is a perfect place to make something optional instead of forced. Let somebody choose to use Big Decisions in any week of the preseason for how ever many cuts they want to make. Those that need something so mind-numbingly simple, they can choose to cut a small number each week. Those others that can handle simple information processing, let them wait till week 4.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

No. This is not it. This is not it at all. Tiburon does not artificially manufacture reasons to dumb down the game....abandoning The One True Principle Of "Sim"

Sure they are, I see it all over the place in CFM.
XP/Goals progression is not sim.
Bringing players back from injury 2 weeks before and not 1 week before is simplifying and not sim.
Being forced to cut players each week of the preseason is simplifying and not sim.

Many of the CFM arcade abstractions aren't necessary for making the game easier to understand than more realistic abstractions.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

We can't have a reasonable and legitimate discussion about the game design of Madden NFL unless you are willing to entertain the viewpoint of a potential consumer who is not already a hardcore NFL and Madden NFL fan. You are clearly not willing to consider that viewpoint and rather have some other point you're seeking to prove in mind, so we're done here.

I am willing to entertain the viewpoint of someone that is not a hardcore NFL and Madden fan. The difference in opinion we have is whether it's really necessary to cut players each and every week of preseason in order for the game to be understandable and accessible to these customers. I don't greatly underestimate those customers (that aren't hardcore NFL or Madden fans) the way you do.

This does make it a reasonable and legitimate discussion. Also, it's not necessary to FORCE this on a customer while making it available to the customer. Poor and limiting design choice.

I very much believe the professional AAA game designers made this decision to artificially create things to do each week during the preseason. If not, they would have made it OPTIONAL to cut each and every week.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr.Tennessee

Lol everyone doesn't have the time to play 20+ plus full games per season to get deeper in CFM. A lot of people like the roster management/off-season decisions which are better as you get deeper and the real people retire.

Yeah you're right I was being narrow minded

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by tubaSimulator

Isn't this a contradiction though?

It is. Surely someone who can't handle the task of comparing and cutting 22 of their own players in one sitting would be completely lost having to compare hundreds of players at a time and select just one. And yet a task that would seemingly take far more effort and comparison to make a decision has no hand-holding mechanism and doesn't sacrifice realism in order to try and teach the user the basic functionality of the task or ease them into the process.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

This could be done at the end of preseason. Allow it from week 1 on, but don't force it. The tutorial wouldn't just disappear. Big Decisions/Cuts would still exist the 4th week of preseason (which by the way, right now it's broken so I don't even use it).

And this is a completely logical and sensible compromise for both sides that they choose not to make. There is absolutely no reason that you should HAVE to cut players in week one of preseason. It doesn't mean they can't still provide the exact same teaching tools to those who have no clue what cutting a player does, how to cut a player or why they should do it but instead of it being a compromise, it becomes a sacrifice and a similar sacrifice made to numerous other areas of the mode which is where the frustration comes from.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

We can't have a reasonable and legitimate discussion about the game design of Madden NFL unless you are willing to entertain the viewpoint of a potential consumer who is not already a hardcore NFL and Madden NFL fan. You are clearly not willing to consider that viewpoint and rather have some other point you're seeking to prove in mind, so we're done here.

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

And this is a completely logical and sensible compromise for both sides that they choose not to make. There is absolutely no reason that you should HAVE to cut players in week one of preseason. It doesn't mean they can't still provide the exact same teaching tools to those who have no clue what cutting a player does, how to cut a player or why they should do it but instead of it being a compromise, it becomes a sacrifice and a similar sacrifice made to numerous other areas of the mode which is where the frustration comes from.

So you agree that my view of having cuts be optional each and every week is a sensible compromise and Hooes quote above was false, unfair and unwarranted?