Madden NFL 21 Patch 1.10 Available, Featuring Plenty of Gameplay Updates, Fixes & Much More - Patch Notes Here

[Dagan]

It was a Jameis Winston patch..?

[OhMrHanky]

Im curious to those drop stats. Are those ‘pure’ drops? Or, do they include D assisted drops? Meaning, did a DB knock it out or hit the WR?

Because, again, for me, and the single game I’ve played since the patch, I saw about 5 completely wide open drops. None of them were because of DB play. Just curious if the drops in the chart are pure drops.


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[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhMrHanky

Im curious to those drop stats. Are those ‘pure’ drops? Or, do they include D assisted drops? Meaning, did a DB knock it out or hit the WR? Because, again, for me, and the single game I’ve played since the patch, I saw about 5 completely wide open drops. None of them were because of DB play. Just curious if the drops in the chart are pure drops.

Drops are a somewhat subjective stat, but they're tracked separately from DB knockouts or other reasons a pass was incomplete. So yes, they're "pure" drops, although what counts depends on what the stat counter for that game considers a drop.

Most NFL receivers end up with a handful (as low as 2-3, as high as 5-6) of drops per season....for example, Travis Kelce had 4 drops on 70 targets in 2019. If DB knockouts counted, the numbers would be much, much higher.

So the Tampa Bay game in question had 7 such "pure" drops. KC had 6 in their game against Houston in last year's divisional game.

[bcruise]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Drops are a somewhat subjective stat, but they're tracked separately from DB knockouts or other reasons a pass was incomplete. So yes, they're "pure" drops, although what counts depends on what the stat counter for that game considers a drop. Most NFL receivers end up with a handful (as low as 2-3, as high as 5-6) of drops per season....for example, Travis Kelce had 4 drops on 70 targets in 2019. If DB knockouts counted, the numbers would be much, much higher. So the Tampa Bay game in question had 7 such "pure" drops. KC had 6 in their game against Houston in last year's divisional game.

That's interesting, because I feel like Madden doesn't count drops in that way. I've seen numerous times where a defender hits the receiver and he coughs up the ball for an incompletion, and it's counted as a drop. Sometimes even the catch knockout animations (ones where the defender knocks the ball away with his hands) show up as one. And of course, those affect completion percentages, so even if drops as a stat in Madden were getting too high, it wouldn't necessarily reflect that the game is playing unrealistically. Fortunately as far as Madden's drop stat goes, I don't think it has any effect beyond showing up in the post-game box score - it's not tracked in season stats or anything. So IMO, you can afford to have catching a bit lower to allow for more of these "drop" DB knockouts to bring down QB completions a bit.

The 1.10 "drops" were a different issue, though. They were certainly random, but it wasn't weighted randomness by ratings - it was just a bug causing anyone and everyone to have a chance of dropping a pass (in a somewhat glitched way) every time in addition to the ones they'd normally drop due to ratings. It superseded ratings and sliders, and that's why it drew the attention of so many people.

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

That's interesting, because I feel like Madden doesn't count drops in that way. I've seen numerous times where a defender hits the receiver and he coughs up the ball for an incompletion, and it's counted as a drop. Sometimes even the catch knockout animations (ones where the defender knocks the ball away with his hands) show up as one. And of course, those affect completion percentages, so even if drops as a stat in Madden were getting too high, it wouldn't necessarily reflect that the game is playing unrealistically. Fortunately as far as Madden's drop stat goes, I don't think it has any effect beyond showing up in the post-game box score - it's not tracked in season stats or anything. So IMO, you can afford to have catching a bit lower to allow for more of these "drop" DB knockouts to bring down QB completions a bit.

Yeah, Madden counts those stats completely wrong.

In Madden, if a receiver gets hands on the ball and a DB knocks it out, it'll always credit that receiver with a drop, and sometimes credits the defender with a PDEF, sometimes doesn't (although abilities that activate on "caused incompletions" usually count accurately).

In the real NFL, that same interaction wouldn't result in a drop being assessed against the receiver, and should be credited as a PDEF for the defender, although it isn't always. PDEF is one of the most subjective official stats in the game, and one of the most variable depending on the official score keeper at that game....even the real league doesn't get PDEFs right half the time. For example, by rule, an INT should also count as a PDEF in the real league, but it's only scored that way about half the time.

If the NFL scored receiver drops the way Madden does, every receiver in the league would easily have double-digit drops per year, and 20+ wouldn't be terribly unusual. As it is, if you see a real life receiver with 10+ official drops credited, that guy prolly isn't going to be in the league very long.

Edit: here's a link to a discussion that includes the league's definition of a PDEF, as taken from the league's official PR manual a few years ago:

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/bb/showthread.php?t=299659

[tg88forHOF]

What's especially hilarious is when Madden will charge a defender with a drop, when they have their hands on an INT and don't hold onto it. The game I'm playing right now lists Juan Thornhill (KC FS) on the Receiving tab with 0 receptions, 0 yards, and 1 drop.

So the game clearly has an explicitly-coded "drop mechanic" that triggers when a player has hands on the ball and doesn't complete the catch or pick....most likely tied to the animation that was triggered.

Edit: lol...went to check, because I didn't even think about it at first. Thornhill is credited with a drop due to the near-pick, but was not credited with a PDEF; he's sitting at zero for the game. Even though that's about as textbook as a PDEF gets.

As I'm reading all of that together, that means the contested catch animation led to a "drop" animation, which caused the engine to evaluate stats based on the animation regardless of which player was actually a defender, crediting the defender making a good play with a drop (that doesn't matter) and robbing him of a PDEF (which does matter, both for season-long stats and player goals/progression).

That's....not optimal.

[tuckermaine]

Is there anyway I can go back to patch 1.10....because patch 1.11 nerfed running game again..IMO
CPU Running backs are not footplanting, not cutting, not trucking..back to body swivel, no organic movement.

Probably have to uninstall...I guess

[mercalnd]

Quote: Originally Posted by tuckermaine

Is there anyway I can go back to patch 1.10....because patch 1.11 nerfed running game again..IMO CPU Running backs are not footplanting, not cutting, not trucking..back to body swivel, no organic movement. Probably have to uninstall...I guess

On consoles, if you have a physical copy, your options are the original game on the disc with no patches at all (by deleting and reinstalling and then preventing the download of patches for the game) or the latests patch. If you have a digital version, there is nothing you can do as deleting and reinstalling will include all patches.