Madden Gameplay via Under The Hood Variables

[Madden08PCgmr]

This is fascinating reading. Thanks!

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by TarHeelPhenom

So then, if you wanted to replicate bad run defenses in the NFL, it would be best to edit units as a whole(ex. entire DL PRC 30-40) instead of rating each individual player by themselves?

I haven't tested yet inside Franchise for OVR defensive team impacts through out a season (I only tested in Play Now games)
- but yes for DL and LB's.

I've tried some of everything to give the AI Run game some type of boost to make it viable.

I didn't see anything referencing any specific "Cumulative" variables and their impacts, so some lab time to see what is/isn't.
- my assumption is the Cumulative is plugged into Shed-Block Formula and provides a boost to all on a Run play (similar to an X-Factor)


It stinks that "0" provides a 49% Chance, but the next PRC level provides only a 6% Chance.
- so it's basically "0" PRC with no variability

The player OVR hit for DL/LB's with "0" PRC is around 10pts, but now knowing some of these positions Thresholds etc..., doesn't really matter.


I really like how Play Action can now be tangible during gameplay.
- in some instances, the Camera transitions into the Ball Carrier Zoom before pulling back out (wish there was a toggle to trigger this all the time)

[khaliib]

Defensive Move Bars per FMV/PMV Ratings
***Mainly notes the "number of FMV/PMV move attempts" per play a player can perform.

50 = 1 Bar
60 = 2 Bars
70 = 3 Bars
80 = 4 Bars
90 = 5 Bars

A) Functionality is similar to fatigue and Ball Carrier move attempts, where as fatigue is applied after break tackle moves, Ball Carrier drops down to the next move Tier and the formulas tied to that Tier

- 5 Bar player notes 4 Bars, meaning during that play, although he has a 90 FMV rating, he will perform using formulas as though he has 80 FMV ratings
- 3 Bars = 70 FMV formulas for this player etc, etc....


B) 1 and 2 Bars can/will still trigger winning outcomes during Pass Block interactions, but when the moves are used up, player (AI especially) will not perform any other attempts to beat the Pass Block.

***Didn't see anything dealing with what's used to determine the replenish rate of Move Bars between plays


Update to Below:
Because of the 1.6 (All Pro) & 1.5 (Madden) Pass Rush Delay imposed on Sim & Comp Play Styles, Pass Rushers will engage OL 1st to apply the delay time, then perform move.

Notes
1) Mainly for AI Pass Rushers, increasing FMV and/or PMV ratings of the DL as a "unit", will increase "available" Move Attempts per play instead of being locked in an blocked animations due to most of the "unit" starting players with lower FMV/PMV ratings (ie Bars)

*** see B) above

2) Double Team causes Pass Rusher (see JJ Watt pic, to use/spend more move attempts dropping Tiers (see A above) at a faster rate.
- ie performing Pass Rush moves "into" the Double-Team Resistance strength (2 bars to the inside of G/T vs 1 bar on their outside)


Conclusion
Very few teams have DL Units as a whole, with players having FMV/PMV ratings above 80+, esp backup players, thus the Pass Rush tends to get bogged down in "Blocked" animations vs DL being constantly active performing moves to be unblocked.

- Generated Pass Rushers FMV/PMV ratings mainly range from 50's (1 move) to 70's (3 moves), so will need some editing love once on a roster


Controller notation
I just finally realized to push/use the R-Stick "pre-snap" for Pass Rush moves.
- I would always wait until I was "engaged" with blocker, then use the R-Stick

[RogueHominid]

The stuff on unit-level rush moves is super interesting.

Just so I make sure I've got it right:

If you have a unit full of guys with 80+ PMV or FMV, they offer a more relentless pass rush on the whole and for the length of the game than a unit that falls beneath that threshold?

That is a very interesting tidbit for roster-building purposes. It's not easy to accumulate those guys, but the payoff of a consistently aggressive front is so massive in Madden and IRL that it seems worth it to emphasize that to me.

[TarHeelPhenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

Defensive Move Bars per FMV/PMV Ratings ***Mainly notes the "number of FMV/PMV move attempts" per play a player can perform. 50 = 1 Bar 60 = 2 Bars 70 = 3 Bars 80 = 4 Bars 90 = 5 Bars A) Functionality is similar to fatigue and Ball Carrier move attempts, where as fatigue is applied after break tackle moves, Ball Carrier drops down to the next move Tier and the formulas tied to that Tier - 5 Bar player notes 4 Bars, meaning during that play, although he has a 90 FMV rating, he will perform using formulas as though he has 80 FMV ratings - 3 Bars = 70 FMV formulas for this player etc, etc.... B) 1 and 2 Bars can/will still trigger winning outcomes during Pass Block interactions, but when the moves are used up, player (AI especially) will not perform any other attempts to beat the Pass Block. ***Didn't see anything dealing with what's used to determine the replenish rate of Move Bars between plays Notes 1) Mainly for AI Pass Rushers, increasing FMV and/or PMV ratings of the DL as a "unit", will increase Pass Rush effort (ie more move attempts) per play instead of being locked in an blocked animations due to most of the "unit" starting players with lower FMV/PMV ratings (ie Bars) *** see B) above 2) Double Team causes Pass Rusher (see JJ Watt pic, to use/spend more move attempts dropping Tiers (see A above) at a faster rate. - ie performing Pass Rush moves "into" the Double-Team Resistance strength (2 bars to the inside of G/T vs 1 bar on their outside) Conclusion Very few teams have DL Units as a whole, with players having FMV/PMV ratings above 80+, esp backup players, thus the Pass Rush tends to get bogged down in "Blocked" animations vs DL being constantly active performing moves to be unblocked. - Generated Pass Rushers FMV/PMV ratings mainly range from 50's (1 move) to 70's (3 moves), so will need some editing love once on a roster Controller notation I just finally realized to push/use the R-Stick "pre-snap" for Pass Rush moves. - I would always wait until I was "engaged" with blocker, then use the R-Stick

I'm definitely going to test this out to see how it plays out in CPU v CPU games. I want to see the OL/DL interactions as well as how the QB responds. Kaalib, one of the things you pointed out long ago in the NCAA games is that there have always been more animations for the DL as opposed to the OL; so in order to see more interaction between OL/DL the focus should be more towards the DL since ratings drive animations.

As a matter of preference, I would probably have a threshold where all DL would be rated to have at least 2 moves per play minimum in order for there to be constant action on every play. That's if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly??

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by TarHeelPhenom

I'm definitely going to test this out to see how it plays out in CPU v CPU games. I want to see the OL/DL interactions as well as how the QB responds. Kaalib, one of the things you pointed out long ago in the NCAA games is that there have always been more animations for the DL as opposed to the OL; so in order to see more interaction between OL/DL the focus should be more towards the DL since ratings drive animations. As a matter of preference, I would probably have a threshold where all DL would be rated to have at least 2 moves per play minimum in order for there to be constant action on every play. That's if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly??

Correct, but once player has performed their 2 attempts, they stay locked in that blocked wrestling animation.

- this outcome is perfect for big Run Stuffing interior DL because Pass Rushing is not their skillset, but sticks out badly when the whole DL unit is rarely doing moves with the QB still in the pocket.


Even if Pass Rushers remain blocked, I at least want to see them "attempting" a move to get free, otherwise the OL/DL interaction warts start to stand out more.

Let us know of your findings with CPU vs CPU.

[Playmakers]

One thing I would add in regards to Pass Rush Moves is that not all players need a high FMV or PMV rating to be effective.

Based on previous testing by me, Tommycoa and Gotmadskillz you can get great OL vs DL interaction by also tweaking the strength rating and footwork ratings of the OL.

I've seen in previous versions of the games both NCAA and Madden where a DL would drive a OL backwards and the stumble animation would trigger by that OL and I've also seen OL completely get put on their A$$

A lot of this stuff we've tested and came across doing classic roster editing strictly set up for CPU vs CPU gameplay. I prefer to individually rate each player because that way you get more variable outcomes.

It is much more time consuming to rate individual players but the outcome or end results is so much more satisfying.

I wish I still had all those old videos in Madden and NCAA that showed the OL vs DL interactions in previous games. Those videos were a thing of beauty that we used to post and it proved ratings does matter once you tweak them properly. It's just unfortunate that it's very time consuming.

I'm not sure if you guys recall ever using the rosters by FBG ratings site but those ratings being plugged into the EA default rosters always brought out the best in Madden

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

Correct, but once player has performed their 2 attempts, they stay locked in that blocked wrestling animation. - this outcome is perfect for big Run Stuffing interior DL because Pass Rushing is not their skillset, but sticks out badly when the whole DL unit is rarely doing moves with the QB still in the pocket. Even if Pass Rushers remain blocked, I at least want to see them "attempting" a move to get free, otherwise the OL/DL interaction warts start to stand out more. Let us know of your findings with CPU vs CPU.

Interesting to know why the "locked in" animation occurs. That has been baffling me for a while, and the best tool I've found to mitigate is a heavy rotation system where new guys with fresh bars are on the field regularly. This helps but doesn't totally eliminate the issue.

The difference b/w the logic governing the CPU and HUM pockets on AM is stark in this regard. While the HUM DL gets locked up after 2 moves, it seems like an under the hood pocket timer is active for the HUM OL that ensures we don't get the same extended times the CPU can get. Not sure if that's accurate, but that's how it seems.