NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin similar

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by maddenps2

Number one argument: So the controls more complex? it should be, playing a quarterback on Madden XBOX360 is the same as it was in the Atari days. All the other moves you mention are for other positions, so I don't even know why you mention them. We are specifically talking about making the quarterback position. The % of people that are successful at a more realistic quarterback throwing system would depend on the time and effort they point into the game just like it should matter. We are talking about a simulation here, it should differ a little from a game like NFL blitz which is simplified.

I mentioned them because a previous poster made a direct comparison.

Our basic disagreement is one of game design philosophy. You seem to think that making game mechanics more complex automatically makes the game better or more realistic. Imo that's false. Added mechanical complexity only makes the game harder, which in turn means fewer people are going to want to play the damn thing in the first place.

I believe that the art of game design lies in making complex actions both realistic and simple to perform.

R&L is neither.

Quote: Originally Posted by maddenps2

Since we are talking about quarterbacks your number 2 doesn't hold much water since quarterback control scheme in madden allows ANY quarterback to be great regardless of ratings.

Not so. QB ratings matter a great deal in Madden, especially now that the rating categories have been expanded.

Quote: Originally Posted by maddenps2

In addition, the quarterbacks ratings in read and lead do effect the accuracy and velocity of the pass. Nice try though. When is the last time you played the game? I have it in my Xbox right now as we speak.

No, I don't have it any more. I do remember that the cursor moved exactly the same for any and all qbs.

[maddenps2]

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

I mentioned them because a previous poster made a direct comparison. Our basic disagreement is one of game design philosophy. You seem to think that making game mechanics more complex automatically makes the game better or more realistic. Imo that's false. Added mechanical complexity only makes the game harder, which in turn means fewer people are going to want to play the damn thing in the first place.

Wrong complexity/difficulty can be controlled by the skill level you choose. Also, the control option could also be a in menu decision. Infact I think it would be a great thing. I think this is a great thing cause it will weed out the kids and other who want a simple fun go for it on 4th down crowd from the more serious players. Players who like more complex controls could play their crowd, and those who don't could play their crowd. This would be especially great for online leagues, as those who prefer different styles can play the people just like them.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

I believe that the art of game design lies in making complex actions both realistic and simple to perform. R&L is neither.

That's your opinion, not mine. If you think tapping a button is sufficient enough in simulating the quarterback position, that's good.. I don't think simply mashing the button of the open receiver is realistic. I'd like to see it evolve beyond what it was 30 years ago.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

Not so. QB ratings matter a great deal in Madden, especially now that the rating categories have been expanded.

What game have you been playing? The quarterback ratings in madden have meant next-to-nothing when the users controls them. This has been a known problem for every madden. As long as you have a quarterback with a strong arm and decent accuracy, you can be Joe Montana. A quarterbacks awareness, the factor that separates the greats from the busts, is a none factor.

As far as I know, you haven't played 2010 so you can't really say if this has changed.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

No, I don't have it any more. I do remember that the cursor moved exactly the same for any and all qbs.

That can easily be changed, and the quarterbacks ratings effected quarterbacks ability to throw to the desired area. I never said the control scheme had to be like or identical to read and lead.

[bang911]

This shows you that pressing a WR button along with Left-stick aim is all that is needed to accomplish the same exact concept as R&L passing. You can lead any route in any direction.

[da bucs gm]

Quote: Originally Posted by bang911

This shows you that pressing a WR button along with Left-stick aim is all that is needed to accomplish the same exact concept as R&L passing. You can lead any route in any direction.

darn it stop crying me cry. That was so beauitful.

[maddenps2]

Quote: Originally Posted by bang911

This shows you that pressing a WR button along with Left-stick aim is all that is needed to accomplish the same exact concept as R&L passing. You can lead any route in any direction.

Maybe you should play both games, I have them both right now, as we speak. You calling them identical is nonsense, they are different. Lead and Read feels and controls different, allows for more control on where you intend the pass to go, and trigger pressure control on the angle and velocity of the pass. Precision passing has been around for ever, it's nothing new, lead and read was.

And btw why are you showing APF in an argument about maddens passing system. Maddens passing system doesn't even match NFL2k5's or APF. I remember way back when nfl gameday first had precision passing, that was awesome.

[SwayGod53]

Just wanted to chime in and say I am pro R&L. I saw the feature a while back and it is just such a cool feature. Definitely a feature that would seperate the novice players from the skilled players...

[maddenps2]

Quote: Originally Posted by SwayGod53

Just wanted to chime in and say I am pro R&L. I saw the feature a while back and it is just such a cool feature. Definitely a feature that would seperate the novice players from the skilled players...

I'm not even a skilled player when it comes to play control. But if they gave the option of advanced controls I would take it on, because I like more challenge and think quarterback control should change from what it was 30 years.

Is read and lead the answer? I don't know. I just showed read and lead as a good example of an advanced control. I never said it was perfect or was the answer, though i think it is a good idea.

[iBlievN5]

h'okay. i think that instead the cone should return and then the current lead system should be intensified.

a lot of what ive seen going against this is how it's "unsim" b/c it allows qbs to perform well if the user has skills which, if i have skills, i believe they should play to my skills. this would also help the feeling of pressure as pure user error due to rushing to make the throw can play in.