Illogical.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

Actually I do. I'm a software engineer.

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no?

Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no? Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

Other games with far less budget have done it and done it much better. There is no excuse.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

So you should be able to appreciate the process that is planning out the game, UML-diagramming all the classes of the project so that it's known exactly what's needed to complete the project, writing code in two-weeks cycles assuming EA follows the agile philosophy, the tedious process that is code debugging, the tedious process that is quality assurance, and the time each of these tasks take, no? Doing something as large-scale as a video game franchise mode, which has to be designed to work and work well given nondeterministic operation by the user over a period of 30-or-so video game years of player progression, offseason roster moves, season simulations drafts, etc., is no easy task, and one that should not be taken lightly.

You make it sound like they started from scratch and had to implement this from the beginning. They are working with years of code here. There is no excuse for the 6 year old bugs, there is no excuse for the lack of enhancements. We get sideline catches every year, blocking enhanced every year, better animations every year... Really? Where is it? Still looks like crap with the animations. Player interaction is still poor, presentation is non existent, challenge system still broken, missing tons of penalties, no progressive lighting, incomplete online franchise, crappy web interface for leagues that doesn't work right. The list goes on. However, since we have gameflow, madden coins, and boostables to purchase we should all be happy. Give me a break.

I work on a very large enterprise software product. We wouldn't be in business if we had the same bugs and broken features for 6 years. Oh yeah, and that "other" game that is 6 years old now had all of the things I listed and did all of them extremely well. The more excuses you provide to this team, the more you are supporting the below average crap we get each year. People say I have an agenda. They're right. As a consumer I'm tired of having to play this garbage every year. I want them to step up to the plate and deliver something that is worth the money they charge. It has to be AT LEAST as good as the "other" game, but it should be 10x better at this point. Football gaming is a disaster now. We're all missing out simply because Tiburon has no real incentive. Many of us are passionate about football and love playing football games. I have nothing against the Madden brand. I bought every Madden from 1988 to 2001. That's when 2k hit the street and it showed me how good football games really can be. Madden 2005 was an excellent game. Far better than anything they have today. It's not about hating EA, it's about demanding much higher quality. Leaders and innovators make magic happen, they don't give excuses. They get it done and they don't take 2 years to implement something that should take 6 months. How can I get excited about sideline catches (which were done already 6 years ago very well) and a new animation system? How many animations systems are we going to get before they have anything that looks real? There's a video I posted in another thread of a certain prod lead touting all of the new things in Madden 08. All of the stuff that was supposedly fixed. A new animation system, blocking all of that. 3 years later and they are still saying the same thing. I'm amazed that so many people on here are willing to throw their 65 dollars over the wall for something that is sub par.

Just like most of the guys on here, I gave the Madden team the benefit of the doubt. I waited and waited for a good Madden and after being disappointed for 5 straight years enough is enough. Either up the ante on your game ten fold, or get out of the way, free up the license and let someone who knows what they are doing build the game.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

The more excuses you provide to this team, the more you are supporting the below average crap we get each year.

Their "crap" is obviously not below average given the review scores their game consistently garners and the amount it consistently sells. They're obviously doing something right.

Further, in my opinion, Madden 10 was a great game, and Madden 11 is shaping up to follow suit. People are overreacting due to EA's admission of minimal franchise mode changes and completely ignoring and/or underestimating the effect that the additions of Gameflow, redone run blocking logic, and a new locomotion engine will add. In fact, people are praising NCAA 11 for the way it moves and feels (due to a similar new locomotion engine and new take on run blocking), but turning right around and bashing it in Madden. Quite the double standard.

[R9NALD9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

Their "crap" is obviously not below average given the review scores their game consistently garners and the amount it consistently sells. They're obviously doing something right. Further, in my opinion, Madden 10 was a great game, and Madden 11 is shaping up to follow suit. People are overreacting due to EA's admission of minimal franchise mode changes and completely ignoring and/or underestimating the effect that the additions of Gameflow, redone run blocking logic, and a new locomotion engine will add. In fact, people are praising NCAA 11 for the way it moves and feels (due to a similar new locomotion engine and new take on run blocking), but turning right around and bashing it in Madden. Quite the double standard.

you can't be serious? I really hope that you don't take all the reviews on IGN, gamespot etc. serious...it's all paid for man! Why do you think GTA IV got full scores everywhere while it was not even close quality wise to GTA San Andreas.

The major sites are being paid for good scores on major releases...it's just business! Developers know that casual gamers will buy the games with higher scores, so they invest in high review scores and get higher sales in return.

Furthermore, yes there is some additions and enhancements, but not enought to justify $60.
It seems they even took out the halftime shows...WTF?

In Madden 09 they had those outside shots of the stadiums...but then the next year removed them completely...what a waste....it's logical to me to have the following...outside shot of stadium...commentator says: "welcome to blah blah...talking about the match etc. and then it switches to the locker room shots or something. That was a great presentation opportunity gone begging.

They are making improvements...but if you look at the number and scale of improvements other sports games are making within a year it really puts Triburon to shame.

[JkA3]

We never know what we are truly gonna get from year to year. Also, the Madden Heads are not the main focus, although the main consumer (in terms of loyalty year to year). There's a lot of room for competition in the football arena- its too bad that the only real competitor is NCAA Football. Backbreaker isn't even close to being competition.

[rooney8]

Quote: Originally Posted by JkA3

We never know what we are truly gonna get from year to year. Also, the Madden Heads are not the main focus, although the main consumer (in terms of loyalty year to year). There's a lot of room for competition in the football arena- its too bad that the only real competitor is NCAA Football. Backbreaker isn't even close to being competition.

I hate to admit it but no arguement there. Hopefully in a couple of years. Sigh.

[Flamehead]

The bottom line these days, fellas, is you believe it when you see it. Until then, it doesn't matter what Phil or anyone else says.