Madden ever problem, LE having more sacks than RE

[kmart2180]

This has been a problem for some time now......But I think the bigger issue is for some reason the LE always destroys the RT. Even if you move a Joe Thomas to RT he will get beat more on the right side.

I think the game rates strength/break block to high towards getting by a defender....the sole reason why someone like Isaac Supoga LE (49ers) will have more sacks then a Dwight Freeney/Julius Peppers. Its the main attributes for getting past a defender im assuming. Also 3-4 DT's get lots of sacks because of this.

If possible they gotta find a way to get the finess/quicker guys better at rushing the qb. Its like once they get locked there break block/strength is not rated high enough to create pressure. Hate seeing a Julius Peppers get stuck but Isaac Soppoga blows past his blocker.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by kmart2180

This has been a problem for some time now......But I think the bigger issue is for some reason the LE always destroys the RT. Even if you move a Joe Thomas to RT he will get beat more on the right side. I think the game rates strength/break block to high towards getting by a defender....the sole reason why someone like Isaac Supoga LE (49ers) will have more sacks then a Dwight Freeney/Julius Peppers. Its the main attributes for getting past a defender im assuming. Also 3-4 DT's get lots of sacks because of this. If possible they gotta find a way to get the finess/quicker guys better at rushing the qb. Its like once they get locked there break block/strength is not rated high enough to create pressure. Hate seeing a Julius Peppers get stuck but Isaac Soppoga blows past his blocker.

I posted this a while back:

The annoying thing about the instant swim move by the DT is that it's the opposite of how 2 gappers in the 3-4 would play the run. You will rarely see Vince Wilfork use an instant swim move and knife into the backfield. He is usually trying to "stand up" the Olineman, then trying to decide whether to move left or right after reading the play.

In the game, high block shed guys like Wilfork will use the quick swim, and while it's effective for Madden, it's unrealistic how often it happens and unrealistic for how a lot of teams are actually trying to stop the running game.

Here is Vince discussing nose tackle play from an article a couple years ago:

"I don't get sacks," Wilfork said. "I don't get tackles for losses. A 2-yard gain, for me, I like that." This is the self-deprecating attitude found in even the best nose tackles.

[Palo20]

From August:

Here is one of the issues: I'll list some ratings for some of the league's best run stoppers and some of the league's best pass rushers.

There is nothing in the numbers that says the pass rushers should actually stand out in the pass rush. The way the R-Stick is supposed to work is it picks the best move (Power or Finesse) based off player ratings. Then there's the Block Shed rating. I've heard, but never seen confirmation, that it only affects running plays. I think it affects BOTH runs and passes.

Run Stoppers
Player	Power	Finnesse	Block Shed
Wilfork	92	70	97
Hampton	93	52	98
Rogers	97	68	98
Jenkins	94	69	94
Pass Rushers
Player	Power	Finnesse	Block Shed
Freeney	74	97	72
Mathis	71	98	67
Allen	97	89	88
Harrison	97	89	97
Dumervil	91	99	83

I highlighted each guys best move. So since each player will use their best move, what's the difference between say Rogers and Freeney? Rogers has 97 Power move and Freeney has 97 Finesse. So Rogers is just as likely to beat his man as Freeney is on a pass rush.

Now the only difference is SPD and ACC. While Freeney clearly dwarfs Rogers in both categories, the DTs are closer to the QB the way he sets up in the pocket. The DEs seem to have so far to run to the QB while the DT always seems one step away from the QB. In both Madden '10 and '11, I've seen more sacks from DTs.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by TracerBullet

Sure is. I had one season on NCAA 11 this year where I finally had the RE get more sacks than the LE. First time that has happened for me in any football video game no matter who was on the right side.

I, too, was also able to get my RE to outperform my LE in NCAA 11, and on Heisman, no less. Both wound up with double digit sacks. And beyond the sack numbers, the pressures and disruptive play along the line was consistent. Not quite sure what it is, but my guys on the d-line at least played to their ratings better in NCAA than in Madden.

In Madden, I got to year three in my franchise and traded for Jason Pierre-Paul, who by that point had progressed to a 99 FMV. He was M.I.A. as a Right End. Even when I matched him up against tackles that had like a 79 PBF, he still was non-factor.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

The DEs seem to have so far to run to the QB while the DT always seems one step away from the QB. In both Madden '10 and '11, I've seen more sacks from DTs.

Tell me about it. 3-4 ends or 4-3 tackles always it up. Although, I just completed a season in which a RE from a team I wasn't controlling led the league with 29.5 sacks, and his PMV/FMV ratings weren't through the roof.

When I am on defense, though, I don't get the consistent interior push that I would like, but my DT on the left side is a lot more effective. In fact, he's led my team in sacks for the past few seasons. Conversely, I played as the Vikings a few times just to see if I could work a dominating line and I saw Pat Williams as the right DT attempt a spin move and get pushed right on his big butt. Why Pat Williams is attempting a spin move, I have no idea.

I'd be interested to know if there's anything code-wise going on with that left side vs. the right.

[kmart2180]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

From August: Run Stoppers Player Power Finnesse Block Shed Wilfork 92 70 97 Hampton 93 52 98 Rogers 97 68 98 Jenkins 94 69 94 Pass Rushers Player Power Finnesse Block Shed Freeney 74 97 72 Mathis 71 98 67 Allen 97 89 88 Harrison 97 89 97 Dumervil 91 99 83

Sadly the only numbers that truely matter on that chart are the Block Shed ones. I messed around with this and gotten results but its to0 time consuming to edit the whole league. But if you reverse the numbers for finess rushers to these dt's it works out well. Basically lowering dt's block shed and raising De's block shed.

Its weird how block shed controls finess/power moves. Why a 3-4 Nt would even attempt a swil move right at the snap.......hope this gets fixed cause this will help the qb and pocket forming also. Its close to impossible to step up cause the dt's are pressuring you right from the get go.

[CM Hooe]

If the CPU quarterback had a concept of what it could "see", I think that implementing this would be a lot easier. I'm not sure how EA would implement this without some sort of concept of passing progressions (which may or may not already exist, it's unclear) which the CPU QB could go through. Restricting what players the CPU uses to determine whether a quarterback feels pressure to only ones not on its blind side wouldn't be that hard, I don't think; surely EA already has the CPU quarterback reading pressure all around it somehow.

There also needs to be a way to differentiate how CPU QBs react to pressure, where they favor simply moving about in the pocket (Tom Brady), attempting to scramble to buy time to pass (Tony Romo), or simply tucking and running (Michael Vick). Based on the setting, the CPU QB would ideally run a different AI routine when it "felt pressure". I get the impression this could be easily assigned with a player tendency which is new to the game this year, though the AI implementation for each situation would obviously be more challenging.

[brza37]

Quote: Originally Posted by kmart2180

Sadly the only numbers that truely matter on that chart are the Block Shed ones. I messed around with this and gotten results but its to0 time consuming to edit the whole league. But if you reverse the numbers for finess rushers to these dt's it works out well. Basically lowering dt's block shed and raising De's block shed. Its weird how block shed controls finess/power moves. Why a 3-4 Nt would even attempt a swil move right at the snap.......hope this gets fixed cause this will help the qb and pocket forming also. Its close to impossible to step up cause the dt's are pressuring you right from the get go.

I've been seeing the same thing over the past few years of Madden and NCAA. I have focused solely on Block Shedding (BKS) rating when recruiting or drafting Dlineman in Madden 10 and now NCAA 11 and have constantly lead the leagues in sacks online and offline. Mainly the sacks come from my LE and LDT. I know some devs have said that the BKS rating only factors in for run block situations but clearly I'm not the only one who has noticed that this isn't the case. There must be some mistake hidden in the code somewhere. I hope they'll take another look at this problem before 12 releases.