Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

[TNT713]

I read the OP's post and SOME of the responses... Here's my take:

1) An icon based passing system that forces the user to cycle through his receivers is reminiscent of Tecmo Bowl.

2) Madden's passing system doesn't need an overhaul.

3) The comments about QB Vision being 'realistic' can only be accepted if we ignore the unrealistic parts of the system (QB's with no periphery, and coal miner lights).

To me... It seems that people in favor of a 'progression,' 'head-turn,' or another type of system to indicate where the QB will throw are missing something. They want some type of programming tool so they can do what the majority of Madden players do instinctively.

It doesn't take long (assuming players are strategically adept) to determine what opponents like to do. We don't need a vision cone, special icons, or glowing receivers. We only need to pay attention to what our opponents are telling us.

Besides, it doesn't make sense to replace a 1-button passing mechanic with one that requires up to 6 buttons to do the same thing.

Hence... LEAVE MADDEN'S PASSING INTERFACE ALONE. The QB Vision debacle should have illustrated that the passing interface is integral to the game and that changing it can have devastating effects on how a multitude of fans enjoy the game.

Personally, I play Madden because of the passing interface, not in spite of it. I doubt that EA would chance my "GUARANTEED" support of the game from long time fans to please a handful of guys who might not be buying the game anyway...

Later

[Argooos]

@mrprice: The vision cone just looked silly.
I'll admit my idea is similar, but there are a couple of few key differences:
1) Only the receiver you're looking at would be in your "vision cone" and thus get the full benefits of your QB accuracy.
2) The switch between receivers would be as quick as you could press the buttons and how long it takes for the QB to look at the new receiver - so for two receivers close together it would be nearly instant, but for a QB to change his stance to throw to the opposite side of the field, it might take a moment - just like it real life.
3) There would be no silly-looking vision cone.

@TNT713: The current Madden passing system is simply unrealistic. It completely eliminates a large part of real-life passing strategy, which is reads, looking off receivers, and defensive players jumping routes.
What I'm advocating is a passing system that adds one extra button-push for each addition read after your first (if you throw to your first read my system would operate exactly like the current system). It's certainly not a 6-button system, unless you manage to get to your 7th read somehow.

Also, I forgot to mention that if my or any other new system were implemented, I would like them to include an option to use either the new or the old system. People who like more realist could use the new system, and people who like the old one could use it. Maybe for the first year, online would stay with the old system, while people have a chance to decide whether or not they like the new one.

[rich7sena]

The best way to improve the passing game in my opinion is to make route running authentic. The best way to do this is to change the play art and highlight the point in each route that the receiver will turn his head and look for the ball. For example if I choose a come back route, the run up the field would be yellow and the break towards the sideline would be red.

An option to deepen accuracy and pass trajectory would be to simply add a passing reticle reflected on the field that indicated where the ball would end up. It would make passing play a bit like a first person shooter. You'd have the ability to look off safeties and coverages.

Another alternative to manipulating accuracy would be to make passing like pitching in baseball games (or how kicking used to be in previous Maddens or like in the current NCAA 12). For example if you are passing to Y or triangle you would first hit Y or triangle to activate the power sequence hit X or A to end the power gage and hit X or A again to give your pass accuracy. The entire sequence would take place during a time slow down period to avoid always being sacked, but it would take place during the throwing motion.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by spit_bubble

I'm starting to envision an evolution of the icon based passing system, one that has QBs going through read progressions, and one that deals with QB ratings in a more realistic manner. Mind you, these are just ideas for discussion... Possibilities... What could be, and not what should be. The basic premise There would still be icons used for passing, but they would appear one after the other, mimicking a QB going through his reads. Example: A basic play from a 3 WR set, with the X receiver running a quick out (read 1), the Y receiver running a curl route (read 2), and the Z receiver running a deep post (read 3). Once the ball is hiked no icons are shown, but when the passing window opens for read 1, the icon pops up. Let's say that route is covered, so on to read 2, the curl route from the slot... Same thing, icon doesn't appear until the passing window opens... Etc. More advanced use Obviously that is very basic, but let's say the same play is called against a defense with just one safety deep. The QB sees this and knows beforehand that he might have a chance with the deep post. He then focuses on the pass rush instead of his first read, pump fakes to the curl route to draw the safety up, then lets fly to the deep post in single coverage. Okay yes, you could still do this type of thing with the current icon based passing system, but let's factor in QB ratings. QB awareness, composure, and scrambling ratings Say we're running the same play but with a QB with low awareness, composure, and scramble rating. In this circumstance he drops back, but the icon over read 1 doesn't pop up due to the low awareness rating. So he goes on to the next progression, the curl route, only to have a different icon pop up than what was there presnap... All because of the low composure rating. By this time the pass rush in on, he scrambles outside the pocket as the play breaks down... WR Z comes back towards the line, and the QB sees him and throws him the ball, but a low scramble rating effects his accuracy outside the pocket and the ball sails high. I kind of like the possibilities of this. I think it would add a little more depth and realism, without being a complete overhaul. I don't know, I haven't really fully thought it out, but just thought I'd bring it up here for discussion.

so you want the game to decide who you can throw to and when?

[iBlievN5]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

Isn't most of this just the vision cone from Madden 06? I thought that system was realistic, but cumbersome. Maybe if the right stick was used to snap from receiver to receiver instead of slowly sliding your vision from side to side?

yeah so if you'd have held R2 and just pressed the button, that's exactly how that worked.

[ryan36]

Search for the "vision cone discussion thread," ... All this has been discussed there.

I mean literally, this idea, along with many others

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

@TNT713: The current Madden passing system is simply unrealistic. It completely eliminates a large part of real-life passing strategy, which is reads, looking off receivers, and defensive players jumping routes. What I'm advocating is a passing system that adds one extra button-push for each addition read after your first (if you throw to your first read my system would operate exactly like the current system). It's certainly not a 6-button system, unless you manage to get to your 7th read somehow.

I get what the goal of the button cycling is, but it's simply not practical, and almost no one would use it. Follow me on this:

If you remember Madden from long ago, passing was a 2-button mechanic. First the snap to start play, but the passing icons didn't appear until the QB hit X again (PS2) to bring them up. The Sprint toggle made it so the QB couldn't run while looking for a receiver because the buttons changed the the "Ball Carrier" phase of the controls.

I think Madden 2002 was the first year where players could select NORMAL or QUICK passing. When Madden '03 went online, the choice of Quick or Normal passing still existed. EA discovered that a huge majority of players opted for the QUICK option. So many in fact that the double button press was pulled from the game and QUICK became the passing interface in Madden '04. Since then, we've been able to sprint with the receiver icons still up.

Ultimately, consumers made the choice that got rid of two button passing in lieu of a system that only used one button after the snap. When QB Vision debuted in Madden '06, the system was viewed as clunky because it wasn't more efficient than the one-button system players had become accustomed over the previous two years. The system got in the way more than improving the game because it erased the advantage of instinct.

The system that is being advocated, much like QB Vision, gets in the way of the QB's most important action on passing plays - THE THROW.

You mention that there aren't any realistic reads, partially due at root to the idea that Madden is little more than pressing buttons. Adding an additional button press merely exacerbate the premise. It would also soil the passing interface in much the same way as QB Vision did for thousands of fans by fouling the instincts we've honed for years.

What if you pass your intended receiver? There are already thousands of Madden players that haven't developed the instincts to know when they pressed the wrong button. Having several button presses would only make it that much more difficult to deliver the ball to the right place.

Dare I say... These might be great ideas for a football game. I just don't think they will be great ideas for Madden.

Later

.

[Argooos]

Alas there is but one football game out there with NFL rosters, so everyone, both players who want a simple button-pushing game and those who want to experience an actual football video game, must play the same game.

Your solution to the problem is to simply bow to the fact that most video game players don't care about playing actual football. Those of us who would prefer a much more realistic experience just have to take what we can get in that regard, since we are not the target market for the game. Get that - people who want a proper football game are not the target market for a football game.

My solution is to include an option that would make passing more realistic. The default mode would stay as-is, as would online unless there was a large public outcry to change it.

Your solution keeps the majority happy, while keeping the minority unsatisfied. My solution keep the majority satisfied, and satisfies large numbers of the minority. Which solution sounds better to you?