Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

[larkyyyyy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

Making the game more realistic is a gimmick? I always hear people saying how gameplay is the most important thing, and that gameplay needs to be improved before all else. Then when a suggestion is offered that would improve gameplay, people want to keep things as is.

How is it realisitic. pressing 10 buttons just to get to your 3rd read. qb vision cone was way more realistic than this. honestly the game would turn into an arcade version of who can press button fastest

[iBlievN5]

Passing Mechanic:

Our basic problems with Madden passing are
1. awareness is useless, so physically limited but cerebral/polished passers are minimalized,
2. you can pass anywhere at anytime unscrupulously,
3. you can't see where the qb is looking to go with the pass for zones, pump fakes are generally irrelevant, and
4. for me, it just looks better if the qb has been facing his wr when the throw is made.

so the idea is; make the field into 3 sections, L/R/MID and flick the R-Stick to each one. this would add difficulty and authenticity to passing as progression across the field can be seen and the impact maximized. the nuances of the mechanic would be,
1. higher awareness = quicker turns for speed of progression and the accuracy rating, which i propose take a hit after cycling, would recover faster/take a smaller hit,
2. pump fakes for higher awareness qb's cause bigger bites while lower rated qb's don't affect the D much if at all.
3. subtle shoulder fakes because that's just awesome.

[spit_bubble]

Quote: Originally Posted by iBlievN5

Passing Mechanic: Our basic problems with Madden passing are 1. awareness is useless, so physically limited but cerebral/polished passers are minimalized, 2. you can pass anywhere at anytime unscrupulously, 3. you can't see where the qb is looking to go with the pass for zones, pump fakes are generally irrelevant, and 4. for me, it just looks better if the qb has been facing his wr when the throw is made. so the idea is; make the field into 3 sections, L/R/MID and flick the R-Stick to each one. this would add difficulty and authenticity to passing as progression across the field can be seen and the impact maximized. the nuances of the mechanic would be, 1. higher awareness = quicker turns for speed of progression and the accuracy rating, which i propose take a hit after cycling, would recover faster/take a smaller hit, 2. pump fakes for higher awareness qb's cause bigger bites while lower rated qb's don't affect the D much if at all. 3. subtle shoulder fakes because that's just awesome.

Yeah, you're thinking along the same lines...

Though I really think the R-stick needs to target specific receivers... And it could work, because you're basically working with 180 degrees (a person's field of vision) divided by 5 at the most. And then you penalize QBs with lower awareness in some such manner.

Also, you could use R3 to tuck the ball and run... And then maybe also have some sort of gradation for the L-stick, so that if you nudged it he would maneuver in the pocket, and if you pressed it full tilt it would have him roll out while still looking to pass.



I'd really like to see something like this... Some simple and well thought out passing method that took into consideration what a QB actually does during a game. Not really getting my hopes up though.

[Argooos]

Quote: Originally Posted by larkyyyyy

How is it realisitic. pressing 10 buttons just to get to your 3rd read. qb vision cone was way more realistic than this. honestly the game would turn into an arcade version of who can press button fastest

I think you may be confused. I am not advocating the system expressed in the first post in this thread. I outlined the system I advocate lower down on the first page. The system I advocate actually includes the exact same number of button presses as the vision cone (if you used it that way), but without the silly-looking cone.

@TNT713: I see your point. I don't agree, but I see your point.

@spit_bubble: I think making people try to flick the R-stick to a specific receiver would be a disaster. Imagine the frustration when you have two receivers in the same general area, and you accidentally throw at the wrong one because you didn't flick the stick quite right, and the throw ends up as a pick-6 that costs you the game. Having different buttons for each receiver is a much more reliable way of selecting which receiver to pass the ball to.

[mmarino]

Here's my idea:

I only want two things added (both optional for people):

1. Let the right stick move my QB's head and let me see parts of the field I couldn't see before. In Madden now, when I pass, the whole camera pans back, and I can only see part of the flats and deep out area. That is not realistic, and, in my opinion annoying. If I could swivel the camera to see that part of the field, with the icons all still there, that would be a huge improvement. It would especially help my short passing game and make my reads easier (now I have to wait to hit passes in the flat and guess what the corner is doing... or play on a blimp-level cam which is ridiculous).

2. If I look right, my feet should set to the right. If I decide to wheel back and throw to the left, there should be a delay as my feet reset to the left and I wheel to face that way. This just makes throwing realistic.

I think the icons can stay the way they are, but I just want to be able to look around more. That's all. Just let me look where I throw it, particularly in the flats.

[TNT713]

I'll reiterate, these would be really good ideas for a brand new football title...

Quote: Originally Posted by mmarino

Here's my idea: I only want two things added (both optional for people): 1. Let the right stick move my QB's head and let me see parts of the field I couldn't see before. In Madden now, when I pass, the whole camera pans back, and I can only see part of the flats and deep out area. That is not realistic, and, in my opinion annoying. If I could swivel the camera to see that part of the field, with the icons all still there, that would be a huge improvement. It would especially help my short passing game and make my reads easier (now I have to wait to hit passes in the flat and guess what the corner is doing... or play on a blimp-level cam which is ridiculous). 2. If I look right, my feet should set to the right. If I decide to wheel back and throw to the left, there should be a delay as my feet reset to the left and I wheel to face that way. This just makes throwing realistic. I think the icons can stay the way they are, but I just want to be able to look around more. That's all. Just let me look where I throw it, particularly in the flats.

The issue with the right stick for panning the camera is one of perspective. Madden isn't supposed to be a on-field player experience. It's supposed to be an in the booth coordinator experience. If we imagine the game as a coordinator pulling strings like a puppet-master, the role of the gamer makes more sense.

Tip: Try using the "widescreen" view to see your wideouts better on a 4:3 TV.

Also, when making an across the body throw there is usually a two step delay while sprinting and 1-step when moving at regular speed. Two steps isn't much time, but it is a delay.

Quote: Originally Posted by iBlievN5

Passing Mechanic: Our basic problems with Madden passing are 1. awareness is useless, so physically limited but cerebral/polished passers are minimalized, 2. you can pass anywhere at anytime unscrupulously, 3. you can't see where the qb is looking to go with the pass for zones, pump fakes are generally irrelevant, and 4. for me, it just looks better if the qb has been facing his wr when the throw is made.

A few issues with this:

1) AWR does effect human controlled passers in several ways...

Passers with lower AWR throw more wobbly passes that receviers are more likely to drop. Passers with low AWR are also more likely to throw passes in the direction the receiver is running instead of the proper location on the route when the pass is thrown before the cut is made making it more difficult to run a timing offense.

2) In real life, there is nothing stopping a QB throwing at any time, but in Madden you can only throw AT an area within 10 yards of where your receiver is expected to be (see QB AWR reference).

3) The fun is figuring out where your opponent is looking. Think of the QB's head as mere decoration meant for nothing more than holding a helmet. Mentally replace him with a poker chip, chess piece, anything to shift the focus to the strategic portion of the game.

4) We agree. It would look better if the QB looked at the receiver, but even if he doesn't your opponent is looking. Whether the QB looks right when performing an action is less important than getting into the head of your opponent.

I think the emphasis on the eye-candy parts of the game aren't seeing the competitive portion. Madden is simple and it's simplicity has driven it's appeal for more than 2 decades. These progression systems, no matter how creative and well planned, will never be more efficient than seeing the receiver and pressing a button once to control speed, trajectory, and the receiver. Using the stick to guide the pass is about as advanced as the passing interface gets. I could teach it to a 5-year old in five minutes but he might be 15 before he mastered all the nuances.

Once again, these are good ideas... just not for Madden.

Later

[Argooos]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

I think the emphasis on the eye-candy parts of the game aren't seeing the competitive portion. Madden is simple and it's simplicity has driven it's appeal for more than 2 decades.

I'm going to stop you right there. Madden's main appeal is that it is the only football game with NFL teams and players. That it is simple appeals to some people, but not to others. In any case, it's simplicity is if anything a very far second to the NFL license in terms of appeal.

Quote:

These progression systems, no matter how creative and well planned, will never be more efficient than seeing the receiver and pressing a button once to control speed, trajectory, and the receiver. Using the stick to guide the pass is about as advanced as the passing interface gets. I could teach it to a 5-year old in five minutes but he might be 15 before he mastered all the nuances. Once again, these are good ideas... just not for Madden.

Why are you opposed to an "advanced" mode for Madden passing?

What you have said there makes an excellent case for why the current system should stay in the game, but it does not in any way give a reason why an alternative system should not also be in the game.
For example, no play mode in Madden will ever be as efficient as Play Now. If the developers thought about game modes like you think about passing systems, Madden would only have Play Now. Fortunately, the developers recognize that there are those of us who prefer a more in-depth, advanced, realistic game mode, and so we have Franchise mode.