My take on the Player Progression "Issue"

[ghostlight85]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

You and I have been through this, and I wouldn't scarp displaying overall and individual ratings altogether. I would have the actual ratings for overall, individual, and potential be hidden, and just show perceived ratings for all, accuracy of the perceived ratings based on how good your GM, Coaching Staff and Scouts are at evaluating talent.

I go back and forth on it. I think if you have a representation of where a player is valued by the league and you have his individual ratings, when you are trying to find someone to sign you can see a disparity between his value and his individual ratings. If the overall becomes a perceived overall, that's a perfectly acceptable solution too.

I'm just tired of making decisions on personnel and knowing instantly or even before making it if it was the right one or the wrong one. There's really no such thing as a bad free agent signing.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by JKIRBY54

I think we can all agree that player progression in madden 12 needs work. I understand both sides of the spectrum in terms of people saying it should be unlimited and that potential should have a cap and etc. I think the main problem is how we as madden gamers have received roster updates and adjustments from madden title to madden title and in recent online updates, week to week. We are used to having a player who has a breakout season in the NFL to get the ratings love that next season when we receive our madden copies. It is natural for us to expect that when we tear it up with a guy who is a C potential or whatever to get a pretty sizeable ratings increase when we advance to that next season. It has been ingrained in our madden psyche. That is how madden ratings are determined, off of STATS and team impact. Not off of, well we think he might be this good so he can only progress this many points. But, is it possible that the progression system could be broken? Take this scenario for example: In my Bengals franchise, Cedric Benson had a career season. He rushed for over 2,000 yds and tied Ladanian Tomlinson's rushing TD record in a season of 28. Benson also won the MVP that year and started in the pro bowl and my Bengals won the superbowl that year. Now, i go to the off season after the progressions take place and explain to me how Benson goes from an 81 ovr to an 80 ovr after a season like that??? Yes, he went DOWN a point. Now explain to me how that is supposed to make sense? Dont worry i'll wait.....

How old is Benson? 30? So he is hitting the point in his career when all running backs abilities go south correct? If he got the stats you say with his current ratings why should he go up in overall? Just because a player in your system has a great year doesn't increase his value to other teams that use a different system. Because he had a great season that should make his speed, agility, accel, and carry go up? What exactly should improve? Maybe his ball carrier vision?! You could argue that but that really means nothing since you are controlling him. So which ratings should increase exactly?

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by ghostlight85

I'm just tired of making decisions on personnel and knowing instantly or even before making it if it was the right one or the wrong one. There's really no such thing as a bad free agent signing.

Yep, I agree, but I would like a quick way to sort through players to get a rough idea on who I want to look at in more detail. Also, I would like some reasonable evaluation for those players that have not had a chance to play/produce. I just can't go on production. I also think that actual ratings should be hidden. The physical ratings that we see should be fairly accurate, but the other ratings should be just a little vague. Do we really know how good a rookies hands are? We have an idea maybe, but you don't know until they play. I would like evaluators to become a part of this, the evaluators that exist in real NFL Football.

[pointNumberOne]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I don't mind knowing after they've been in the league for X number of years. Everyone knows how good Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers are. But the young players, I think we should have only a perceived view of there ratings. Which I think goes along with the bold. They can even get fancy and have different perceived values for the current system your team is running.

I haven't thought enough about hiding the OVR rating, I was referring only to hiding the potential. I meant I don't mind knowing exactly how good my player is at this point in time, but want to be left wondering if he'll get better (or worse).

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by pointNumberOne

I haven't thought enough about hiding the OVR rating, I was referring only to hiding the potential. I meant I don't mind knowing exactly how good my player is at this point in time, but want to be left wondering if he'll get better (or worse).

I don't want to know exactly how good my player is right now, unless he's been on my team or in the NFL for a while. I like the concept that EA/TIB is using for the drafted and undrafted rookies in Madden Offline Franchise. I just think it wasn't implemented nearly as well as it should be.

[timmuh1515]

Quote: Originally Posted by JKIRBY54

I think we can all agree that player progression in madden 12 needs work. He rushed for over 2,000 yds and tied Ladanian Tomlinson's rushing TD record in a season of 28......

I cut some stuff out just to comment on.

First...i think almost everyone would like the progression adjusted. For me personally i would like more flexibly per player instead of an overall progression model. Maybe that is affected by the stats some, or by the size and build of a player, or his role on the team, or his personality (work-ethic), or an injury or numerous other options mixed together.

As for the second part of your email. I think referencing LT's huge season is perfect.

LT rushed for 1,815 with 28 TDs. Everything went right for him

next year

he rushed for 1,474 with 15 TDs.
next year 1,110 with 11 TDs

Players regress with age...especially RBs. A big ratings boost after a huge statistical season doesn't mean the following year he'll be better because in 90% of cases that same player will have a worse year.

[iamwubbie]

Quote: Originally Posted by ABR173rd

This sort of thing is why we were given the ability to edit our players at the end of the season. The Issue now is they lose their player roles... when edited......

If you want to edit players like this, then simply do it at the end of the season after the Super Bowl. They'll lose their roles, but the game will re-do all the player roles at the beginning of the offseason anyway.

[iamwubbie]

Quote: Originally Posted by asterisk

The Alex Smith situation is just like the Cedric Benson one: if Alex Smith did that in real life, we'd assume his old ratings were incorrect and update them so he could perform like that in Madden. But if he's doing it in your Franchise, he's already doing it in Madden, thus there's no adjustment needed. It would indeed be a nice feeling if you were able to see Alex Smith listed among the best rated quarterbacks when you go to Player Management, but there's no justification for it.

I don't disagree with you. THAT is the reason why Madden doesn't progress people after a good season, and it's logically correct. I have no qualms with it.

But players DO improve after year 3, albeit at a slower rate. I don't think anyone would argue that. It just annoys me that we don't see that progression over time. I'd like to see future Maddens improve technical ratings like accuracy, awareness, pass-block footwork over time.

I guess the reason people are so attached to stats-based progression is because the game isn't very good about highlighting stars in the game and rewarding great performances. Yes, there's the Pro Bowl, Weekly, and Yearly awards, Hall of Fame, but do those have any in-game impact? Does the awards system have any impact on a player's free agency and trade value? When the commentary talks about players, do they mention that Alex Smith or Cedric Benson has been playing very well this season? I'm very glad they re-introduced Player Roles and would like to see that become a more important feature in the future.

In real-life, if Alex Smith were to have a Pro Bowl this season and next, and was a top statistical performer... he'd have high trade value. If he went to free agency, he'd have a good amount of suitors and could demand pretty good money. The 49ers would not feel the need to draft a QB in the first round. But in Madden, even if he performed very well, he wouldn't have much trade value. He'd get few offers in free agency, if any. The 49ers would draft a QB (assuming there's no Kaepernick in the roster). It's because his in-game rating is at the average 77, 78 OVR.

I don't speak for everyone when I say this because I know many people just want to see their favorite players in the high 90s, but because the game only looks at ratings when they make roster decisions and who to gameplan against, the only recourse is to adjust ratings. My rationale is that Alex Smith is performing at the same level as, say, Michael Vick or Aaron Rodgers, so I feel there's a need to update his ratings to reflect that, and the AI will then value Smith.

Didn't NFL Head coach use a different system for players? For instance, some players like Aaron Rodgers could be a 90s overall in most systems, under most coaches, but Alex Smith could be a 60 overall under one coach/system, but a 90 overall in another?

I just think that there needs to be more to it than ratings. I think that ratings should be hidden, while Player Roles (based off of both the hidden ratings and prior season performance) should be what the AI and users can see.