My take on the Player Progression "Issue"

[iamwubbie]

On another forum, I actually tackled the issue with a couple guys.

We've actually created a method to manually edit players at the end of the season.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/62512...fl-12/60400232

It's ALMOST gotten to a Version 1 state.

[iamwubbie]

Quote: Originally Posted by iamwubbie

On another forum, I actually tackled the issue with a couple guys. We've actually created a method to manually edit players at the end of the season. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/62512...fl-12/60400232 It's ALMOST gotten to a Version 1 state.

To give you an idea:

1.) We don't touch players who are in years 1-3 because they already progress.
2.) Players that are 30 or older do not progress, unless they outperform their career average.
3.) Individual positions are edited if they statistically place in the top 5, top 10, etc. at the end of the regular season
4.) All players in groups (offensive line, passing defense, rushing defense) progress if the team places in the top 5, top 10, etc.
5.) Specific skill ratings such as TAC or AWR progress, but not physical ratings like SPD or ACC
6.) Players with an OVR of 83 and below get a bonus if they outperform their career average. (So if Alex Smith suddenly becomes an elite QB, he'll get an additional bonus)

[JKIRBY54]

Quote: Originally Posted by iamwubbie

On another forum, I actually tackled the issue with a couple guys. We've actually created a method to manually edit players at the end of the season. It's ALMOST gotten to a Version 1 state.

Interesting formula you guys came up with. I like how you guys broke it down.

Nice Post.

[iamwubbie]

Quote: Originally Posted by JKIRBY54

Interesting formula you guys came up with. I like how you guys broke it down. Nice Post.

Thanks. I don't know what EA was thinking. They had it right before, though they just needed to some tweaking.

But then they completely revamped the player progression model and only progressed young players.

It makes sense. Players progress mostly in their first two or three seasons. But that doesn't mean a player still can't get better as he gets older. Of course, they don't progress as much, but they still get better in terms of technique.

So frustrating. I'm just glad they let us edit player ratings.

[asterisk]

The progression system could use improvement, but having players' year-to-year progression reflect their previous season is not the answer and doesn't make sense if you think about it a little more. You're trying to compare two separate things here that have a fundamentally different logic behind them.

All these changes in players' ratings from update-to-update is not player progression. When a breakout star like Arian Foster sees a huge ratings jump between updates, it's not because the developers think he improved by that much, it's because they think the past rating was plain wrong.

Think of the initial rating given to all players as the developers best guess at how well a player is capable of performing. They don't know for sure how good a year any player is going to have, so they make a prediction using the only real resource they have: past performances. And they're often wrong in their ratings because the NFL is hard to predict, so they change the ratings accordingly in an attempt to accurately reflect how well each player is capable of performing.

This doesn't happen in Franchise mode, which is why your Cedric Benson shouldn't see a big ratings improvement for having a good season in your Franchise. There are no "wrong" ratings in Franchise mode; when you start the Franchise, it takes whatever roster you have at the moment and treats all the ratings on there as infallible. Your players will perform as their ratings allow them to. Your Cedric Benson had a great year and easily outperformed what his ratings would suggest, but he still accumulated every single yard based on his ratings. There's no "adjustment" needed to his ratings like a real life breakout star, so in the offseason he shouldn't see a huge jump in his ratings but instead see player progression.

The player progression system in Madden plays it pretty safe. Players improve rapidly their first two years in the league, see a slight improvement over the next few years and then stay steady, and then start declining around age 29. Everybody more or less follows the same model.

Personally I'd like to see a little more randomness in progression so we do have breakout stars. It'd work in the opposite order of what you want with your Cedric Benson though; a random player would see a big unexpected improvement in their ratings and then have like 1800 rushing yards the following year.

tl;dr: The change in ratings for a player after a real-life breakout season is NOT intended to represent "progression" so you cannot apply this to your Franchise players.

[iamwubbie]

Quote: Originally Posted by iamwubbie

Thanks. I don't know what EA was thinking. They had it right before, though they just needed to some tweaking. But then they completely revamped the player progression model and only progressed young players. It makes sense. Players progress mostly in their first two or three seasons. But that doesn't mean a player still can't get better as he gets older. Of course, they don't progress as much, but they still get better in terms of technique. So frustrating. I'm just glad they let us edit player ratings.

Actually, when I think about it, it makes sense why they reduced the amount of player progression after the first few seasons. Players reach a certain level when they get to the league. After Frank Gore broke out, he's been about a top 16 runningback, but hasn't been a top 5 runningback. He's reached a certain level in his progression.

The problem is this, users play their guys and often exceed what they would've done in real life. I have Alex Smith with a 106 QB rating in Madden. For him, that's probably a miracle for him to do that with the 49ers. My gripe with Madden is this. Players SHOULD reach a certain equilibrium with respect to their in-game ratings and the stats they put up. If they go outside their equilibrium and their stats are better than what their in-game ratings should dictate, their in-game ratings should increase until his play levels off.

If Peyton Manning puts up 3 consecutive 4000 yard, 40 TD seasons, he's probably fine staying where he is because that's the norm for him, and that's to be expected of a QB rated in the mid/high 90s.

If Alex Smith were to do that, he SHOULD get some progression going his way. For one, that's outside the norm for him, and that is not the expectation of a QB in the mid/high 70s OVR. It should GRADUALLY increase until his performance levels off.

[iamwubbie]

@asterisk: You're right. I agree with you. It logically makes sense that only young players progress (though veterans should still progress small amounts in technique-oriented ratings like AWR and Route-running over time).

But there needs to be some sort of ratings adjustments when players perform outside the norm. For online play, there's roster updates, but no such system for veterans in franchise mode. It doesn't happen often in real-life, but occasionally it DOES happen that a player dramatically improves. Aubrayo Franklin was a virtual unknown, and then all of a sudden became a high-level NT with the 49ers a year or two ago.

And in the case of Madden, players performing outside the norm is very frequent because users can play the players better than what is expected.

The word "progression" is probably the wrong term to use for this situation. "Adjustment" would be a better one, and there's nothing in the game that truly accounts for it.

[ghostlight85]

Quote: Originally Posted by iamwubbie

@asterisk: You're right. I agree with you. It logically makes sense that only young players progress (though veterans should still progress small amounts in technique-oriented ratings like AWR and Route-running over time). But there needs to be some sort of ratings adjustments when players perform outside the norm. For online play, there's roster updates, but no such system for veterans in franchise mode. It doesn't happen often in real-life, but occasionally it DOES happen that a player dramatically improves. Aubrayo Franklin was a virtual unknown, and then all of a sudden became a high-level NT with the 49ers a year or two ago. And in the case of Madden, players performing outside the norm is very frequent because users can play the players better than what is expected. The word "progression" is probably the wrong term to use for this situation. "Adjustment" would be a better one, and there's nothing in the game that truly accounts for it.

I want the gameplay to reflect the player's ratings, not the player's ratings to reflect the gameplay.