Quick update on press/release issue

[CapnKill]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

The debate about proper technique is interesting, but you guys are glossing over the really important part here. Player ability basically doesn't matter! Look at the formula. Hypothetical win probabilities: 0 Press CB 99 Release WR 0 + 2 + .99 0/2.99 = 0 % probability that CB wins 2/2.99 = 66.9% probability of neutral .99/2.99 = 33.1% probability of WR wins 99 Press CB 99 Release WR .99 + 2 + .99 .99/3.98 = 24.9% probability of CB wins 2/3.98 = 50.3% probability of neutral .99/3.98 = 24.9% probability of WR wins Increasing from 0 to 99 Press only increases probability of win by 25% (holding opposition player skill constant) and only reduces probability of loss by 8.2%. So basically, it's going to be a neutral outcome most of the time, regardless of the ratings that are involved. Even if you have the maximum degree of mismatch possible, it will still end up in a neutral outcome 2/3 of the time. The ratings barely matter at all! All the stuff about steering and technique is great, but none of that has anything to do with whether or not great players will dominate. It would appear that the root of the problem lies in the way they are calculating win probabilities for interactions. My bet is that at least part of the problem here with post press/jam coverage has to do with a similar kind of equation being used to determine outcomes in man coverage. Thus we got games where on '08 DBs could cover ridiculously well regardless of ratings, and on '09 we got the opposite.

It almost seems like they are afraid to make Elite players Elite. Afraid that dolphin fans will be pissed off when Ted Ginn isn't able to get open vs Assaghoa ...

[CapnKill]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Yeah, it's not 100%, that's why I corrected myself. It really depends on how someone wants to coach it. Coverages are flexible. I don't necessarily agree with the DB automatically pushing the WR inside based on route. I'm more of a field position coach that will have my corners push inside or outside depending on where they are located on the field and what coverage we are in. If I have a corner on the boundary, and I am in cover 1 I ask him to give up the outside, but don't you let anything come inside. The field corner plays the outside because the Safety is in better position to help him on the field. But I'd call a lot of swapping my corners. I want my best and biggest man coverage guy on the boundary to help defend against the fade. Also the scenario I presented in cover 0 matches what reavis and Asamougha said. Cover 2 however, is much more flexible in what the coach wants to do with it IMO.

And would it not be great if we were given all the tools necessary to do all this ourselves?

I'd love to be able to tell my DB to bump, and shade outside for example. We could in the PS2, although Shading was kinda suspect, but I'd love to see those abilities come back on the NG game and much more refined.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

The debate about proper technique is interesting, but you guys are glossing over the really important part here. Player ability basically doesn't matter! Look at the formula. Hypothetical win probabilities: 0 Press CB 99 Release WR 0 + 2 + .99 0/2.99 = 0 % probability that CB wins 2/2.99 = 66.9% probability of neutral .99/2.99 = 33.1% probability of WR wins 99 Press CB 99 Release WR .99 + 2 + .99 .99/3.98 = 24.9% probability of CB wins 2/3.98 = 50.3% probability of neutral .99/3.98 = 24.9% probability of WR wins Increasing from 0 to 99 Press only increases probability of win by 25% (holding opposition player skill constant) and only reduces probability of loss by 8.2%. So basically, it's going to be a neutral outcome most of the time, regardless of the ratings that are involved. Even if you have the maximum degree of mismatch possible, it will still end up in a neutral outcome 2/3 of the time. The ratings barely matter at all! All the stuff about steering and technique is great, but none of that has anything to do with whether or not great players will dominate. It would appear that the root of the problem lies in the way they are calculating win probabilities for interactions. My bet is that at least part of the problem here with post press/jam coverage has to do with a similar kind of equation being used to determine outcomes in man coverage. Thus we got games where on '08 DBs could cover ridiculously well regardless of ratings, and on '09 we got the opposite.

Actually you are hitting the nail on the head to me and why I'm not satisfied with what I saw. We can talk a little about technique, but ultimately, if Asamougha cannot handle Ginn in man then nobody is going to be able to and that is not fun in any shape or form. To me it is simple. People play with the Pats and with the Cards because they love Moss and Fitz and they want to dominate with them. But guys can't play with the Raiders because they expect Asamougha to dominate, because what we have seen is your expectations are gonna get shattered This guy should be as dominant on defense as Fitz and Moss is on offense.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by CapnKill

And would it not be great if we were given all the tools necessary to do all this ourselves? I'd love to be able to tell my DB to bump, and shade outside for example. We could in the PS2, although Shading was kinda suspect, but I'd love to see those abilities come back on the NG game and much more refined.

That's the best case scenario IMO. Unfortunately, we will not get it this year.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by CapnKill

It almost seems like they are afraid to make Elite players Elite. Afraid that dolphin fans will be pissed off when Ted Ginn isn't able to get open vs Assaghoa ...

Or you should say elite defenders. I bet Moss and Fitz are not gonna have any problems against mediocre DB's. Hell they are not gonna have too many problems against elite DB's

[JHova1982]

Quote: Originally Posted by CapnKill

It almost seems like they are afraid to make Elite players Elite. Afraid that dolphin fans will be pissed off when Ted Ginn isn't able to get open vs Assaghoa ...

the real madden and other coaches always say there is no such thing as a shutdown corner

elite CB should have the least amount of catches thrown there way for sure but it no way that Assaghoa cant get thrown against with a WR even as average as ted ginn

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

LBZ, I gotta say, I don't know anyone who teaches inside leverage by the corners in 2 man. Seen it taught both ways when in man free, but 2 man is almost always outside trail position on vertical routes by the corner. The safeties normally play primary force vs run, the should stay put on the snap and help late vs the pass/playaction. You want those corners to keep outside leverage to help stop against the out/3 verticals. Most teams play this with sub personnel and in obvious throwing downs/distances.

LOL, shhhhh, I know, but we got away with it for one year. It actually worked to our surprise. Probably because teams expected us to play it the other way. Needless to say, it was an experiment that had some success. But they are not doing that now

[dougdeuce]

Quote: Originally Posted by AndyBernard

haven't been around alot, but why do the cutscenes trigger so early?

they don't, the camera angle changes when the ball carrier is hitting the turf.