Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

[parrothead]

We all got tired of button mashing playing NES Playaction Football. Man that was some mashing, you pretty much had to mash just to run. But, I digress. Where do ratings like strength and size factor into the F4F? It would be cool if it was like press square, triangle, circle, like a pattern you had to follow to get the fumble.

[MoneyGames]

Quote: Originally Posted by wheelman990

I think if EA continues to give us options, such as a controller setting that allows us the tapping running of 2k5, it will result in a much happier group of buyers. If they give us all the features of 2k5, then both madden users and 2k users can be happy with the controls they like in the same game and customize it as they wish. This would go along way with "next generation gaming". I for one liked the tapping button for running faster for several reasons. First, I find holding down a button boring. Second, I find tapping the button is one more thing to string along or remember, which adds one step more of skill. Third, It also makes you slow down a bit to pull off most combo moves, since you will move your thumb for another move button, which is realistic. My main grip with Madden is everything just feels like it runs at a constant speed. We need some variety. Its almost like it runs on a track, which for me gets stale.

I like those points, it would add to the skill factor in the game to really separate the different levels of madden players. if they could implement something like this, I think it would really give you an accomplished sense of feeling while playing the game. after a long 65 yard TD run youd feel like you really had control of the run the whole way

[Only1LT]

I don't mind the button mashing per se, I just hate how it is implemented. It should either be one button to mash, or it should be a QTE. It seems like Tiburon tried to do both at the same time and it just doesn't work.

Having said that, I still would not be crazy about it because it has the potential to unrealistically skew turnover numbers, if not done correctly, which it isn't. It goes to the mini game too often in my play time, regardless of the circumstances leading up to the fumble. That being the case, whether I am the one losing F4F all the time, or winning all the time, I would not like it. Better, in my opinion, that the game take location of the ball, players, bounce, hand ratings, speed players are running, and timing of the dive, if you do decide to dive on a live ball, and determine if you get the fumble or not. If two players from opposing teams get there at the sme time, and you want to do a mini game that is either ONE button to mash or a QTE, then that's fine, but not a mini game on fumbles when you see that a player has recovered and then people pile on anyway. I don't want it where any one player, even me, gets every fumble, every game, because of a mini game. There has to be something said for where your players are when a fumble happens, and how quickly you can change to the nearest player and pounce on it or pick it up too.

As far as mashing buttons to sprint. I am a HUGE fan of the 2K games. I have owned every Madden, and only two 2K games, but I would have to say that I like the gameplay of the 2K games better. Having said that, after playing the current gen Madden's with the new controller layout, I would have to say that it is hard to play a 2K game and not wish that it was in it. Tapping to run is definitely fun and makes total sense, but it causes the same issue that I have with the old Madden layout. Using the trigger to Sprint frees up your hands to hit other face buttons and use the Right Stick as well.

Although I am cool with the button tap for Sprint, I think that the placement of the Sprint as a trigger (feels more natural to me as I am a big FPS gamer) just feels more intuitive to me and if I had to choose between the two, tapping X (tapping trigger would probably not work well, which is why I am saying either or) or having it at trigger, I will have to go with holding trigger to Sprint.

[d3athb4dishonor]

I don't know where I stand with this. I've had a few fight for the fumble mini games and lost every single one of them. That's whats going to annoy me about it, because I'm not the button mashing champion of the world I get a turnover.

We'll see how it works for online play.

[sois]

Breaking tackles a la TSB was the funnest button mashing football concept ever.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

I mean people complain about Fight for the Fumble because of the button mashing. I don't see what else EA could have done though. Button mashing is as violent as you can get with a controller and the fumble pile-ups are the most violent things in football and thats a fact. They kind of go hand in hand if you ask me.

Fighting for a fumble is one of the few things I feel do button mashing justice.

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Then people get angry and say its not "sim" when people want the option to button tap for sprint. If you ask me smashing A to sprint is a lot more realistic than holding a button. By holding the button your player will always go the same speed. By button smashing you can control your speed from a steady jog to a faster jog that allows you to cut, or you can go out and tap it fast and sprint. You basically control the ball carriers feet. The faster you tap, the faster he starts to move his legs.

I don't like mashing to sprint. I'd prefer analog running to handle that(no sprint button).

Walking, jogging, running & sprinting are different forms of the same thing. We don't mash for the 1st 3. Why mash to sprint?

But it's just a preference. I don't feel it's un-sim. But my definition of sim is much different than many folks here.

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

I also notice people don't truly understand the concept behind button sprinting. They seem to think that it allows you to go past your max speed when in reality thats not true at all. Once you hit the "sprint" stage your runner runs to his 93 speed or whatever his rating may be. It doesn't allow Haynesworth to outrun McNabb for a pick 6 because I have a faster thumb.

In this particular case, sprinting, I don't want thumb speed to be a determining factor.

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

The last thing I want to talk about is breaking or branching out of tackles with button mashing. People also seem to think this is fake or unsim. When you have to think about it though. Its not going to allow you to break out of someone who has a high 95 tackle rating. It gives you a fighting chance and allows you to pick up those extra yards. I also look at this as if you are controlling the runners feet once again. The faster you tap the button the faster and harder he keeps his feet moving so he can escape the tackle or at least gain those few yards needed for the first down.

I'm cool with mashing for this too.

But I don't understand what button mashing has to do with simulation. NOTHING about controling players with a controler is sim. Mashing to sprint is just as un-sim as pushing an analog stick or holding a trigger.

[Only1LT]

Mashing to break out of a tackle, and consequently on D, mash to keep the offensive player from breaking out, was always fun. It was fun on 2K. It was fun on Game Day. It was fun on Madden. I don't know why they took it out.

[MAzing87]

OP, I get some of what you said. The poster above you, I don't get your analysis, but personally, I don't want the CPU to play the game for me.

My reasons for going against button mashing has nothing to do with it being sim or not. I don't like the system in that it takes away the opportunity for me to see the "violent" cutscenes that they added because I have to focus on the bottom of my TV to figure out which button to press next. I have said this before and I'll say it here. A good way to implement this feature is to have both players punch in a series of face buttons on screen and the one who enters the buttons more accurately and quickly recovers the football. It's not as "violent" as you would want it, but it makes it much easier to enjoy the cutscenes more.

I'm not sure who would think that they have the fastest fingers to mash away and break the max speed of players but I personally don't want to mash buttons on every single play every single time. That's what would happen if you wanted to mash buttons to represent players moving their legs. That would be more work than needed and can be annoying. I'm sure there are people who aren't as fast with their fingers, and using this idea, they would never reach a players max speed if they needed to mash buttons every single time.

And another reason why I'm against button mashing is because of the potential exploiting factor that can go with it. OP, how would you feel if you worked really hard to cause a fumble (you are on defense) by mashing away, and the online opponent is a cheeser with a modded turbo controller, not working as hard or as "violent" as you are to get the ball back when you are down 25-21 with 35 seconds left to play and you have no timeouts? Offense recovers and the game is over.

Regardless if I have the fastest fingers to win every fumble recovery or not, if any one of you can fund me a couple of dualshock controllers, then I would glady embrace this feature. I don't want to get violent with my controller. I want to have fun and play the game minus the button mashing mechanics.