Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

[Bootzilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

I really don't see how button mashing = RC'er. When 2k5 came out I had a record of 30 -0, or around there. I could tap faster than anyone and if I broke into open field with Clinton Portis, I never lost. Just because I tapped extremely fast didn't mean I was using money plays in that game. In fact, I usually just ran the ball 40 times a game because I just love running the ball. I still have the same finger speed because my guns always get locked in Call of Duty because I shoot over the fire limit, but when I play Madden I still pound the ball at least 30 times a game. Heck, I didn't even know how to RC until I came to OS.

I'm not saying button mashing= RC per se. I guess a better way to explain it is some guys are video game players. I've never played anything on a console other than football, basketball, boxing, and baseball. Some guys are good video game players and like button mashing as a way to be involved. Video game players are usually more adept at finding glitches because they are used to "going for the high score" and not necessarily looking for realism.

To me winning every game by running the ball 40 times with Clinton Portis because you are fast on the buttons is exactly what I'm talking about. "Sim" to me means a realistic number of carries and a realistic ypc average. I thought Madden way back in the day was dumb when I could run for 600 yards in a game with Gaston Green (remember him?) or when buddies of mine thought it was cool to shoot 80% from the field or avg 75 ppg on Bulls vs Blazers with Clyde Drexler. Yeah you could do it but, it's not real. It's "going for the high score".

With Madden 10 I'm concerned with the broken tackles especially by WR's because I don't want them to have unrealistic ypr. For some stick jockeys they'll love breaking all of those tackles. Not me.

That's why I think for the most part most of the button mashing should be for NBA Jam type of games.

[MoneyGames]

Quote: Originally Posted by Frank784

I personally am not a fan of it at all. I'll admit that I'm not good at it either. The reason I don't like it is because it gives the advantage to the person who has the quickest fingers. I was never the person with the fastest fingers, and think that there has to be someway to emulate the fight for the fumble without making me have to jump up and go ape-**** on my controller. The animation is pretty cool...i hope that guy doesnt fly over the pile every time...take the stick skill out of it, and make it more of a strategic mini-game. I don't know what, but there has to be a better way.

I respect your honesty but i know a lot of other players who play the game feel the same way you do.

check out my first post in this thread (the 2nd post of the thread)

no disrespect to you, but as i have said over and over there seems to be an attempt in some areas of madden 10, to make the game "easier" for players who arent like me. everyone has their preferences and thats is ok, but i am a HUGE advocate that the game should be determined partly by the CPU AI( i mean we can cant control all 11 position at once, we have to depend on the AI), player ratings, but most importantly THE USERS OVERALL CONTROL OF THE GAME. that includes manual stick control, smarts, play calling, creativity, use and efficiency in gameplay features, etc. a feature like F4F adds to that....on a critical fumble you needed on defense when down 4 points, you better make sure your thumb game is ready itll be the difference between a W or an L.

I personally like it, since im a very competitive gamer, it can really show case the better madden player in competitive match.

[bukktown]

Button mashing needs a new PR guy.

[MoneyGames]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bootzilla

I'm not saying button mashing= RC per se. I guess a better way to explain it is some guys are video game players. I've never played anything on a console other than football, basketball, boxing, and baseball. Some guys are good video game players and like button mashing as a way to be involved. Video game players are usually more adept at finding glitches because they are used to "going for the high score" and not necessarily looking for realism. To me winning every game by running the ball 40 times with Clinton Portis because you are fast on the buttons is exactly what I'm talking about. "Sim" to me means a realistic number of carries and a realistic ypc average. I thought Madden way back in the day was dumb when I could run for 600 yards in a game with Gaston Green (remember him?) or when buddies of mine thought it was cool to shoot 80% from the field or avg 75 ppg on Bulls vs Blazers with Clyde Drexler. Yeah you could do it but, it's not real. It's "going for the high score". With Madden 10 I'm concerned with the broken tackles especially by WR's because I don't want them to have unrealistic ypr. For some stick jockeys they'll love breaking all of those tackles. Not me. That's why I think for the most part most of the button mashing should be for NBA Jam type of games.

Ok Ok i like this

your points go back to a point ive been making on OS for a while:

THE GAME IS AS REALISTIC AS THE 2 PLAYERS PLAYING!!!!!!

I hear you, i really do, and understand what you want, i really do. but understand that the skills that go along with playing a video game can be mastered just like playing basketball, or doing calculus, or cutting hair...it can be mastered. you might pick up a pair of clippers and FK me up!!! but a pro barber will pick up some clippers and get me right !!!! and in madden there are players that have certain skills and abilities that separate them apart from their opponents as well!!!

if 2 madden players are playing a game and player A cant stop player B from having 40 carries thats not player B's fault. esp if player B has exceptional running skills on the game. what player A can do though is limit or match what player B is doing by playing better Def and setting the D up so that player B has to think twice about running 40 times a game.

Ive played games where ive snuffed my opp 60-12, 75-7, 43-0 and times when the games has been 28-21 or 14-13 but thats because in those games both users had similar skills. if you play a game and get muffed 40-0 you cant say, "o he was cheesing all game" what you should say is "this mf kicked my *** and im not as good as i thought" and step your game up so the next time you play that player you see a more realistic outcome in score, stats, etc.

and thats what so frustrating about some you guys here at OS, you act as if a video game cannot be mastered!!!! i got to a point in 09 where i could do just about anyting on the sticks because my skills were so sharp

[canes21]

Let me ask you something If you find that running the ball against the Titans for example was easy and you had 100 rushing yards in the first half alone. Would you not keep on attacking the rushing game until it finally slows. I wasn't necessarily rushing 40 times because I had quick fingers, I was doing it because I had success doing it. Yea, there were games were guys loaded the box with 8-9 guys and forced me to pass and kept the game close, then there were the guys who played 4-3 and thought blitzing the gaps might stop the running game. But the problem wasn't the gaps necessarily, but that my blockers were blocking good and I followed them and found open space then tapped the hell out of my controller.

[Bootzilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Let me ask you something If you find that running the ball against the Titans for example was easy and you had 100 rushing yards in the first half alone. Would you not keep on attacking the rushing game until it finally slows. I wasn't necessarily rushing 40 times because I had quick fingers, I was doing it because I had success doing it. Yea, there were games were guys loaded the box with 8-9 guys and forced me to pass and kept the game close, then there were the guys who played 4-3 and thought blitzing the gaps might stop the running game. But the problem wasn't the gaps necessarily, but that my blockers were blocking good and I followed them and found open space then tapped the hell out of my controller.

I don't blame you for taking what somebody is giving you. I'm a single player guy mainly because it's hard to find players that play "my style". I've gotten killed by "video game" players (like my brother-in-law who knows zip about real football or strategy) only to figure out their tactics and turn around and kill them. What sucks is that I would sometimes have to resort to some of the same cheesy tactics to win. I don't want to win that way. So, I tweak my sliders to make the game play sim for me and play the cpu and enjoy it as much as I can.

[Bootzilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoneyGames

Ok Ok i like this your points go back to a point ive been making on OS for a while: THE GAME IS AS REALISTIC AS THE 2 PLAYERS PLAYING!!!!!! I hear you, i really do, and understand what you want, i really do. but understand that the skills that go along with playing a video game can be mastered just like playing basketball, or doing calculus, or cutting hair...it can be mastered. you might pick up a pair of clippers and FK me up!!! but a pro barber will pick up some clippers and get me right !!!! and in madden there are players that have certain skills and abilities that separate them apart from their opponents as well!!! if 2 madden players are playing a game and player A cant stop player B from having 40 carries thats not player B's fault. esp if player B has exceptional running skills on the game. what player A can do though is limit or match what player B is doing by playing better Def and setting the D up so that player B has to think twice about running 40 times a game. Ive played games where ive snuffed my opp 60-12, 75-7, 43-0 and times when the games has been 28-21 or 14-13 but thats because in those games both users had similar skills. if you play a game and get muffed 40-0 you cant say, "o he was cheesing all game" what you should say is "this mf kicked my *** and im not as good as i thought" and step your game up so the next time you play that player you see a more realistic outcome in score, stats, etc. and thats what so frustrating about some you guys here at OS, you act as if a video game cannot be mastered!!!! i got to a point in 09 where i could do just about anyting on the sticks because my skills were so sharp

I feel you and everything you're saying. But, I guess what I'm saying is if I'm not controlling the player that is attempting to tackle Clinton Portis and he can't do it because my opponent has "mastered" the game what kind of fun is that. Ray Lewis can't tackle Clinton Portis because someone "mastered the game". Ehh.

If I call the right defense and get my players in the right position to make a play they should play to their ratings.

I admire people with great stick skills but I respect people with great strategic skills. I want a chess match not stick skills challenge.

I guess that's why I'm a single player guy. To each his own though. I'm glad that we have the option to turn things on or off to fit the way we prefer to play and hopefully we'll all be able to not "master" the game too soon so we can all get enjoyment out of the game.

[mmorg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bootzilla

I feel you and everything you're saying. But, I guess what I'm saying is if I'm not controlling the player that is attempting to tackle Clinton Portis and he can't do it because my opponent has "mastered" the game what kind of fun is that. Ray Lewis can't tackle Clinton Portis because someone "mastered the game". Ehh. If I call the right defense and get my players in the right position to make a play they should play to their ratings. I admire people with great stick skills but I respect people with great strategic skills. I want a chess match not stick skills challenge. I guess that's why I'm a single player guy. To each his own though. I'm glad that we have the option to turn things on or off to fit the way we prefer to play and hopefully we'll all be able to not "master" the game too soon so we can all get enjoyment out of the game.

You could only charge through tackles against players who were out of position or weaker players though. 2k did it really well with the game mechanic and allowed you to create angles as a runner to get defenders out of position so you could break the tackle by hammering A/X. A guy like Ray Lewis is still going to be hard to get out of position because of his ratings and he is going to be really hard to get away from no matter how fast I hit A/X.