Madden in True 1080P

[RoyalBoyle78]

I hear you guys, bottom line for me is, I truly don;t see a huge difference in 720p vs 1080p with games, I really don't. I'm very happy gaming in 720p. The only thing that sux is that I have a 1080p set and don't game in that res.

[supdog]

Here is a couple of links that talk a little bit about 1080p games


http://www.geekscribe.com/2007/12/08...3-1080p-games/
http://www.makeyougohmm.com/xbox360-1080p-games/

[tomymac23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I read the first couple of pages. Someone may have said this already, but I can't go through all of it to see. The game is rendered in 720p on both systems. The 360 has a dedicated scaler chip for games that will up-rez the game to 1080i or 1080p. The PS3 has no such chip. Madden supports 1080p on the PS3. The only way to make the game play in 1080p though is to actually uncheck 720p and 1080i in the Display Settings on the XMB. Doing that will make the game run in 1080p. If you have all resolutions checked it will not go beyond 720p because that is the native res of the game. However. All TVs that have been manufactured within the last 3yrs or so will always SCALE a source to match it's native resolution. If you have a 720p TV, it doesn't matter if feed it a 1080p source, it will scale it to fit its 720p pixel format. If you have a 1080p native TV, it does not matter if you feed it a 720p source, it will still scale the source to match it's native res. Keep in mind that when you hit the info button on your TV, it will tell you what res the actual source is. If it is different than the native res of the TV though, it will not be what it is actually displaying as. Bottom line, even if you have Madden play in 720p on your PS3, if you have a 1080p TV, it will still scale it to match it's native res. It is an upscale done by the circuitry of the TV. Just like the upscale done by the 360's scaler chip. This does not just go for games, the same goes for movies, TV, and using your TV as a PC monitor for that matter. The ONLY way that it makes ANY difference to you what so ever whether the scaling is done by the TV or by another component (ie game console, Blu-ray player, Upscaling DVD player, etc...) is whether or not one of them is doing it improperly. If your TV upscales just as well as the 360 scaler chip then you will see no difference whether the scaler chip is on or not. Bottom, bottom line. It's all upscale. And yes I have the game. On PS3. And I have a 58" Panasonic Plasma. And no the game does not look totally different whether I set the PS3 to display it in 720p or 1080p. It's not some major difference. It's all in your head.

Whatever you have a panasonic homie I have a couple steps above that so my picture looks different from yours anyway! LOL but to each his own. I just wanted to comment on the fact that it plays in 1080P on my TV and I thought from Ian's comment that it would only go up to 1080i.

720P is best for watching and playing sports games really anything with fast action its going to be better than 1080i. But I like your comments. Thanks for the laugh.

[tomymac23]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

The game would have to specifically support 1080i. If you uncheck 720p, which every game supports, and no other resolutions are supported by the game, as per the back of the box, then the PS3 will display it in 480.

Very true no doubt

TMAC

[tomymac23]

Trust me I hear what everyone is saying. All I'm saying is that on my TV it says 1080P and when I look at blue rays they say 1080P and the picture quality looks the same. I know madden is made @ 720P great. When I look at the game in 1080P on my 61 inch it looks better to me 12ft away than it does @ 720P. Doesnt really matter. I think whats been said is correct. Game made @ 720P good for playing @ 720P but looks good to me @ 1080P. At the end of the day there is no jaggies, no hit in frame rate or none of those things on my tv at least I've not seen it as of yet...

Like I said NBA2K9 was native to 720P it plays in 1080P and looks really good. I was thinking of that when I made the post. 1080P for any sports game has yet to be done, but at least Madden10 has stepped up and given us what every other sports company has to date a playable 1080P sports title!

TMAC

[Klocker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

This is NOT POSSIBLE on the PS3. The system does not up or downscale anything. The game has to be programmed to support such a resolution. If Madden supports 1080p, then the game is being displayed in true 1080p. It's not like the 360, which upscales most 720p titles. The game may have been developed at 720p, but the game supports 1080p natively, not through system upscaling software.

yes it does... you can count the true 1080p games on one hand this gen (except for XBLA and PSN titles)

The 360 scales ALL games to 1080p and outputs 1080p to your tv from the 360 on EVERY game. the Ps3 in order to output to your tv a 1080p signal either has to have the game programmed to render at 1080p (again maybe 3 full titles do this and Madden 10 is not one of them) or it uses a software/hardware upscaling.

here is the thread that explains some detail

Quote:

360 Xenos is the hardware scaler, not HANA/ANA, which are just the video output chips dealing with digital/analog output to the various connections made with the display. Dave Baumann AVIVO takes more samples for scaling so it is expected that the scaling is better (the algorithm also appears to be some form of bicubic, not a simple bilinear) Update: see below Hardware scaling to the output resolution chosen in the dashboard is automagically performed . In upscaling to 1080p, some games may first scale to 720p in software before the GPU scales to a 1080p output. e.g. RR6, SCIV, VF5, CoD4, H3, TR:L... Some games let the GPU handle the scaling to 1080p directly from the arbitrary resolution. e.g. MotoGP 06, PGR3, ESIV:O... "lanczos is just one of the selectable filters. Ultimately each game 'could' opt to use a different filter/sample count combination (though I suspect most don't bother)." -Fafalada PS3 For whatever reason, the Pure Video scaler in the G7x derived GPU (RSX) is gimped to horizontal scaling of specific front buffer resolutions. See B3D Article As of the January 2007 PS3 SDK, only the following front buffer resolutions are supported for hardware scaling to 1920x1080p: 960x1080 1280x1080, 1440x1080 and 1600x1080 Games whose back buffers are rendered at strange resolutions must upscale the front buffer (at a cost of extra memory) to either 1280x720 (720p output) or to one of the acceptable 1080p resolutions. (Note: native resolution = back buffer resolution, front buffer = image for displaying/hardware scaling)

and if you want to know EXACTLY (very technical) how the Ps3 gets to 1080p here it is...

Quote:

small Snippet.... Now, let’s describe exactly how this added capability works. How can a developer implement a 1080p/i output mode in their 720p-native game for a low cost with this partial scaling? Simply, the developer needs to support one of the new resolutions that SCEI has added to the PlayStation 3’s rendering palette. Key among these is new support for a resolution of 960x1080. This results in a framebuffer with relatively few more pixels compared to the more standard 720p, and as a result enjoys a computational cost (fillrate cost) comparable to the one associated with 720p framebuffers to begin with (921,600 pixels for 1280x720 compared to 1,036,800 pixels for 960x1080). At the same time, it benefits from eligibility to be horizontally scaled by the resident hardware scaler. Additional 1080 rendering modes also supported now include 1280x1080, 1440x1080 and 1600x1080. These modes, similar to 960x1080, are capable of being upscaled by the hardware into 1080p/i.

[Pared]

None of that had anything to do with what I said and posted in contrast to your comment.

If you pick a resolution with the game on the 360, the guide is displayed and once the game is started, the 360 can up/downscale even if the software doesn't support it. Developers don't need to program to support it, since the hardware does this on it's own.

The PS3 has no such setup in place to do this. To get a resolution that you'd like, you'd have to force it by deselecting the resolutions in the system's settings as was mentioned many times in this thread. The game is then launched at this resolution. If the title supports it, it is displayed. Otherwise, you get 480p.

It's up to the game to support the resolution and up to the user to have the correct setting to force it.

[Klocker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

None of that had anything to do with what I said and posted in contrast to your comment. If you pick a resolution with the game on the 360, the guide is displayed and once the game is started, the 360 can up/downscale even if the software doesn't support it. Developers don't need to program to support it, since the hardware does this on it's own. The PS3 has no such setup in place to do this. To get a resolution that you'd like, you'd have to force it by deselecting the resolutions in the system's settings as was mentioned many times in this thread. The game is then launched at this resolution. If the title supports it, it is displayed. Otherwise, you get 480p. It's up to the game to support the resolution and up to the user to have the correct setting to force it.

that is correct sorry if I misunderstood the direction you were going.

However, I THOUGHT you were saying that to get to 1080p the PS3 does not have to scale the 720p image... but it does, every time. When a game says it "supports" 1080p in PS3 it is not rendering (except for those few titles) it means the developer programmed the game to take advantage of the PS3's ability to UPSCALE the image to 1080p. Perhaps Ian and co. have done just that for Madden 10 which is way cool of them, which was probably Tmac's original point of this thread .

as you pointed out on 360 since it's all done in the hardware a dev does not have to support scaling so all games upscale to 1080p if you select that output. My only point and I am not directing this to you specifically, is that all PS3 games that says it supports 1080p is using scaling except for the few titles that render natively

here is the list of most PS3 and 360 games (page down) and their rendering resolutions... only the ones that say 1920x1080 are natively rendered at 1080p without some sort of scaling

In fact on PS3 you may be better off in some cases leaving the PS3 at 720p and letting your TV upscale it if it is a high quality 1080p set.