Will the "nano Blitz" be in madden 11?

[will12203]

Quote: Originally Posted by o Mass Murda o

see thats the problem...if ur "bored" or whatever and get hell bent on playing the game so unorthodox that the game resembles nothing of an any nfl sunday broadcast and u want something more "exciting"...u should be playing something else honestly. a sim style game doesnt cut it for u if thats how ya feel. blitz, madden arcade, BBreaker arcade mode, whatever is the answer. that is an arcade style of play to be nano-ing and getting 3sacks with the same guy/play in a row, running same play 90% of the game, onside kicking to begin games, and other stupid madden shenanigans. but at the same time, madden should also be "sim proof" enough that the ai is smart enough not to be "taken for a ride" and allow these types of playstyles to flourish the way they do with such difficult counters outside the realm of reality.... im so F'n tired of ppl saying "oh u dont like it...oh man u can counter it by subbing TE to FB, move receiver 3 steps to the left of the tackles booty crack, have 2 rb's hot routed to block, say 3 hail marys,click r2 twice, x, o, triangle, and it can be countered. GTFO!!! im just being silly...but u know what i mean. point blank period, its ai glitches and exploits, and why it usually takes ******** and thoroughly researched and "labbed" solutions to finally find a way to not be sacked every play in 2 secs

you got the point....We should not have to hot route 5 guys to pick up one person Nano-ing every F down!

[Johnny "Too Tall"]

Quote: Originally Posted by wangtangkiki

Why would you call someone a loser for using the same play over and over if it works against you? NFL teams do it all the time.. I've seen a team use the SAME toss play 3 times in a row.. I believe it was the Chiefs with Jamal Charles.. THREE times. I used to be a "sim" player, but then I just thought.. it's a game.. this is stupid.. Commissioners of online franchise just make up rules so they have the best chance to win. I started to watch more random NFL games instead of just Bronco games.. I saw rocket catches[Larry Fitzgerald], teams going for it on 4th down at any point on the field [Broncos & Patriots], and teams running the same play over and over. [All teams] You didn't really understand what I was getting at... You shouldn't insult someone's play style if you don't like it. When you call someone a "cheeser", you are insulting them. I know that it can be annoying, but if you stop it, it's not annoying at all.. but to call someone a "cheeser" because they like to run a play that works is ridiculous. First, I want to say that I don't go for two every game. I don't block field goals. I don't onside kick unless I'm down in the 4th Quarter; I don't run pitch/toss plays, but I do nano. So you don't even try to play players that don't have a certain game style? I play who I get. Most of my ranked games have my opponent trying to block kicks. I call a timeout if I notice they are moving a player up to block my FG. I go for two to prevent a block. I deal with guys that block FGs/throw screens every play/ off-tackle every down.. and I win. I know how to counter most plays so I'm able to beat people.. even if they are "cheesing." I actually enjoy playing other players that nano.. I hate playing people that have bland defenses.. I can read exactly what coverage they are in, and there is no movement of their D..

I dont think you understand what I'm getting at...

''You shouldn't insult someone's play style if you don't like it. When you call someone a "cheeser", you are insulting them.''

I'm insulting them?! The way their playing is insulting to me. When you play a certain way and show no regard for your opponent by doing something that is simply annoying, that's insulting. They/you might not think its insulting, but i do, and apparently so do other people.

''I know that it can be annoying, but if you stop it, it's not annoying at all..''

Absolutely wrong. It's not about stopping it or not or whether their successful or not. I've had on many occasions people do the same thing over and over despite the fact their losing. It was not fun. It was annoying and a complete bore. What is the fun in defending the same play over and over again?..Wow i stopped the same play for the 15th time. awesome... And then the person quits.

I get that you think everybody should be able to do what they want, despite the fact their playing another person who they should take into consideration when playing online. My point is you reap what you sow and if you play a certain way you deserve to be labeled that way. I think i have the same response to you most cheesers have to me, you don't like it, too bad. Except for they don't say it that nicely...

A team running the same play all of 3 times in a row is a poor example. I'm talking about 18 out of 20 plays. And you know what, I watched every dolphins game last year never saw that happen, and the reason you recognized that is because it rarely happens. That's why it stood out.

[o Mass Murda o]

exactly johnny...its not whether we stop it, win or lose, its just ******** and pointless and no fun losing brain cells playing someone like that for an hour. but its all good...theres no getting around somebody with "cheeser rationale". everything is met with "awww man stop crying...u can counter it with (insert random stupid player subs, motions, multiple hot routes)". or the anomaly quotes "i saw the so & so's run xyz play 5 times in a row on tv so its real life"....even though it was one time, one game back in '97.

next we'll hear the rationale that they saw bellichik on tv cheating and taping signals so its perfectly fine to look over the couch at your buddys controller as he's picking his play.

[beastwork]

yeah i really would like your success in this game to be more dependent on play selection and not your ability to manipulate the game. stick skills should play a role but I feel like a lot of the strategy has been removed. we might need to go back to the ro sham bo concept from Techmo Bowl

[LBzrule]

It's funny and people can argue until they turn whatever color in the face. One thing this whole debate reveals is a problem in game design. And until changes occur on the design/development side things will not change on the gaming side.

I can see both sides of the argument here. You might be mad that people nano blitz you. Understood. However, at the same time, you have to understand that the people who nano blitz you have played this game against other people in the present and in the past that have crazy QB behavior and they were never punished for it. Secondly, and most importantly, nano blitzing stems from a piss poor A.I pass rush by the defense.

EA looks to have done some things about the former, but not the latter. Until people get a better A.I pass rush, I do not expect nano blitzing to decrease. When you play guys in this game that are Madden Jeti's on offense and you see your defense consistently sliding backwards and you are doing everything you know how to do but their reads are super quick and their audibles are on point and you can't even sniff the QB with a basic rush you are forced into doing one of two things: F@G D and hope he doesn't know how to rocket catch or two nano blitz and even when you nano blitz those guys you never get there. At best you force him to try to hurry him into a bad throw.

I want to also say that those guys do not have to be cheese on offense. They just know their reads like the back of their hand and there's really not much you can do about except sit there and get torched. If you sit back you get torched worse. You just have to hope those type of guys make a mistake because if they do not you are not going to stop anything they do. When you find a player that has mastered their offense you are in a world of hurt. If you had a good basic pass rush then things COULD be different. Madden gives players too much time in the pocket against a basic rush.

There are way too many variables here for one side to be right. There is a lot wrong in game design and inattention in development on this front and until they address it, nano's will be there.

[lolfalconsbeatu]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

It's funny and people can argue until they turn whatever color in the face. One thing this whole debate reveals is a problem in game design. And until changes occur on the design/development side things will not change on the gaming side. I can see both sides of the argument here. You might be mad that people nano blitz you. Understood. However, at the same time, you have to understand that the people who nano blitz you have played this game against other people in the present and in the past that have crazy QB behavior and they were never punished for it. Secondly, and most importantly, nano blitzing stems from a piss poor A.I pass rush by the defense. EA looks to have done some things about the former, but not the latter. Until people get a better A.I pass rush, I do not expect nano blitzing to decrease. When you play guys in this game that are Madden Jeti's on offense and you see your defense consistently sliding backwards and you are doing everything you know how to do but their reads are super quick and their audibles are on point and you can't even sniff the QB with a basic rush you are forced into doing one of two things: F@G D and hope he doesn't know how to rocket catch or two nano blitz and even when you nano blitz those guys you never get there. At best you force him to try to hurry him into a bad throw. I want to also say that those guys do not have to be cheese on offense. They just know their reads like the back of their hand and there's really not much you can do about except sit there and get torched. If you sit back you get torched worse. You just have to hope those type of guys make a mistake because if they do not you are not going to stop anything they do. When you find a player that has mastered their offense you are in a world of hurt. If you had a good basic pass rush then things COULD be different. Madden gives players too much time in the pocket against a basic rush. There are way too many variables here for one side to be right. There is a lot wrong in game design and inattention in development on this front and until they address it, nano's will be there.

I agree with everything you said, especially the big issue ultimately stemming from 'piss poor A.I. pass rush.' And once again, I agree that if you play the more Madden 'guru' people of the game, the more nanos/exploits they will no (on both offense and defense).

The only part you lost me, is when you started saying that some of these people cant be stopped because they just know their reads like the back of their hand, and even if you try to nano or not, it seems like you don't even get close to sacking the QB or making a play - simply because they have their reads down pact. (I also underlined it in the Quote)

I consider myself to be quite good or whatnot when it comes to offense or defense (having been ranked in the top 100 online the past few years), but especially on the defensive side of the ball. You are correct that some people just simply cant be stopped, even if you do try to Nano them, or sit back in coverage -- literally Nothing will work...but 9 times out of 10, its not because my opponent is making better 'reads' than me.

I could literally have the perfect coverage for defending the 5-6 yard 'Hitch' route, or 3 yard 'slant' route, sitting in my zone or man coverage waiting for him/her to throw the ball to the receiver to make a solid defensive play, and for some reason my oppenet gets 6 yards a pop -- Not because hes making better reads than me, but because of (what I Bolded in your Quote), and the 'Adaptive AI' turns out to be a complete joke on Both sides of the ball.

If someone keeps blitzing through the 'A' gap, sure, I can go to SG, motion my HB..blah blah blah, and if someone is RCing me, or is just a complete 'Jedi' on offense, and is literally picking me apart, but he's picking me apart with the same 2 routes (most of the time you with these 'gurus' its no more than 2 of the same routes they run -- tell me if I'm wrong though), where does the Adaptive AI come in to play on Both sides of the ball in those situations? I should not have to stay in SG an entire game because my OLineman cant pick up 1 unblocked LB on a 3 man rush (sometimes theres a 4 man rush, but that shouldn't matter) The Dude just doesn't get touched..Unacceptable.

...I agree with everything you are saying though, the big question here (IMO) is how come year in and year out, the Online community gets no feedback on a glaring issue like this? As you mentioned, its not new, and it probably wont be going away anytime soon. You cant tell me that all this time, and all these years nobody in the EA studio did not see the laundry list of Nano's (with the same 'A' gap concept) on youtube, and fail to make that a Number 1 priority for the following year. Blocking, and the trenches are the most important thing in real life football, and that should hold true for Simulate Video games.

[LBzrule]

I would say there is a wrong perception of some of those guys. Some of those guys are just as diverse in what they do as people that consider themselves sim. Here is the thing, some of them play Madden ALL DAY EVERYDAY. I play it alot but I'm nowhere near that good.

Also it is really telling when you actually try to run a legitimate overload blitz only to have a backside tackle who should not be aware whip across the formation and pick up the free blitzing defender. Yet they will not pick up stuff up the middle. Game design and development

[lolfalconsbeatu]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I would say there is a wrong perception of some of those guys. Some of those guys are just as diverse in what they do as people that consider themselves sim. Here is the thing, some of them play Madden ALL DAY EVERYDAY. I play it alot but I'm nowhere near that good. Also it is really telling when you actually try to run a legitimate overload blitz only to have a backside tackle who should not be aware whip across the formation and pick up the free blitzing defender. Yet they will not pick up stuff up the middle. Game design and development

I'm in the same boat as you, I play a lot -- but definitely still have a life, and I'm still not as good as most. In fact, I don't like loosing, but if I feel I just got spanked, I'll take it...and I wont b%tich & moan if someone is killing me with 2 or 3 plays because hes just keeping me guessing..(its frustrating...but its football)...but when I no whats coming and I'm throwing everything I have at it to stop it, and nothing still works, thats when I get upset...

Anyway you hit it on the head...its Game design and development problems. Its hard to get excited about a new year when my favorite mode (online) will not be dependent on who can out-gamplan who, or out-stratigize who...but who can manipulate the faulty AI the best.