Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by KANE699

I think Ian did a good job explaining what took up a lot of their development time last year, a huge part of it was an EA mandated implementation of Online Team Play, I liked a lot of the changes they put into the pregame flow, but as we all know it can be repetetive. Point being, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the stuff we see during games is the same thing, its just because we only see it a few weeks later that its not repetitive. For example, think about everytime there is a sunday night or monday night game in Cincy and they show the guys at the stadium making the spaghetti chilli. That will happen multiple times in the year if there is more than one night game for the Bengals. Prime example of that is what they do in game for Philly showing them making cheesesteaks, kinda the same thing. Just because it's a different week and its not the same camera angle or maybe even the same person, you feel like its new and fresh everytime you see it. Possibly the best way to represent this in game (but is kinda difficult) is to give cut scenes multiple random camera angles so that it doesn't seem the same everytime going into game. It's still not a perfect broadcast style and this I understand and clearly see, but they didn't spend as much time on it last year as they probably could of as they had a lot of other huge issues taking up a lot of development time.

I think you are trying to make the point that the dev team is going for "perfect" network broadcast style but hasn't got there yet. If that's what you are implying, I disagree. I believe someone from the dev team clearly stated a while back that they weren't trying to emulate tv. I think that has been a fail so far and is the main reason Madden is not more immersive.

If there were 4 tvs lined up in a row, with NFL 2k5, NBA 2k11, MLB The Show and Madden 11 displaying CPU vs CPU games, Madden would look the least like what we see on tv. The fact that a NFL game made 7 years ago, a basketball game and a baseball game have better tv style presentation in 2011 than Madden, which is based on arguably the most watched televised sport in America, should be unacceptable.

Quote: Originally Posted by Phixius

That's why things aren't done or address, more time are wasted on other stuff. OTP on a game where many gameplay flaws still exist? OTP is pointless when there's still gameplay issues that's been untouched for the last 3 years. IMO, Presentation can take a backseat, I want the gameplay to dealt with first. Although it was limited, presentation was the least of my problems with Madden 11'. EA can add a much overlay they want but I can't take having a defender knock over in a two man tackling animation instead of interacting with it or having a player slide into a position in order to make a play rather than missing it for that said reason. If I'm out of position, then I'm out of position. I shouldn't have to make the game make up for my lack of awareness.

Just to be clear, I agree gameplay is the most important aspect of any video game. Ian has clearly stated that gameplay upgrades are MAJOR tasks and take time to implement. In the meantime, I would like to see network broadcast presentation upgrades made EVERY year. I would think these upgrades would be easier than some others because the blueprint is already present from tv broadcasts and other video games.

[KANE699]

The pre game flow is very very very much like a real broadcast flow showing the quarterbacks, the team getting hyped up the fans outside all of it is very much a lot like what a broadcast does at the beginning of the game, the only thing is, they need to work a lot more on broadcast elements during the game, other than that I feel they have the post game and pre game broadcast elements well represented.

[at23steelers]

Quote: Originally Posted by KANE699

The pre game flow is very very very much like a real broadcast flow showing the quarterbacks, the team getting hyped up the fans outside all of it is very much a lot like what a broadcast does at the beginning of the game, the only thing is, they need to work a lot more on broadcast elements during the game, other than that I feel they have the post game and pre game broadcast elements well represented.

Honestly, it's mediocre at best. Grading scale wise, I would give the pre-game a C, during game D-, and post game a C-. The pre-game has to be more specific and talk about the keys to the game as well as key matchups. Don't just have QB-QB comparisons but any key players. Then during the game, have all the way through how the teams are doing, compare it to keys of the game, see which side of the field the offense is running to and passing to, and their success. Show stats on who the QB is picking on, on D, how well the online is playing with sack, hurries, and pressures. Talk about different story lines between the two teams, and the teams in general. During replays, have the announcers analyze it, and share their thoughts. For franchise mode, talk about their division and the standings and the standouts on each team. Just have everything flow. Then, half-time show adjustments from coach, and make the necessary adjustments to depth chart, game flow, and WR matchups. Then, post game, talk about the game, it's effect on the NFL, and just general thoughts including player / play of the game.

Btw, my favorite game presentation wise (not including announcing) is NCAA Basketball 10. Awesome presentation.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote:

Just to be clear, I agree gameplay is the most important aspect of any video game. Ian has clearly stated that gameplay upgrades are MAJOR tasks and take time to implement.

Yawn...

It gets tiring getting an excuse for why things are lacking. Everything that any company produces takes work. Customers don't want to hear excuses. It takes me time to make the 65 dollars it costs to buy the game. Big deal. I'm a software engineer too. If we told our customers things like, "That's too hard", "That takes a long time", we'd be out of business very quickly. That's a crock. What it really means is that they don't have the chops, they don't have the budget, or they don't want to invest in the effort. Or maybe it's just all 3. I don't hear other developers saying that. I saw 2k completely implement the ESPN name, likenesses, overlays and commentary into a game in one year. On top of making the greatest gameplay improvements in a sports game ever. I never heard them complaining. They also didn't have exclusive access to the NFL, unlimited resources in money and development, etc. etc. These podcasts are not helpful to EA or to the community. They are a turn off because it's just a session to give excuses.

How about finishing things you started. Pro-Tak (untouched in 11), Online Franchise (incomplete in 10, got story of server side so can be completed without a new version, 11 came out, still no updates, fixes, sliders, salary cap, etc.), Halftime presentation (untouched), Animations (look exactly the same). The list goes on. Note to the Tiburon guys... You can afford to be a little arrogant when your product is actually really good. Otherwise, stay humble and focus on what really needs work.

Madden 11 is a big improvement since Madden 06, but it's still a very lacking game. The Exclusive license is selling it, and it's wearing thin.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by KANE699

The pre game flow is very very very much like a real broadcast flow showing the quarterbacks, the team getting hyped up the fans outside all of it is very much a lot like what a broadcast does at the beginning of the game, the only thing is, they need to work a lot more on broadcast elements during the game, other than that I feel they have the post game and pre game broadcast elements well represented.

Good point. I got so high on my network broadcast presentation "soap box", I forgot about the pregame/postgame additions. That said, the fact that there aren't more network elements, the pregame storylines are broken and there isnt a coherent "Show" element to tie it all together, makes it pretty forgettable.

I feel like the next thing that would be said is "they can't do everything in one year" which I understand. However, they can implement it in a more sensible way, IMO. If they cant add both a show element and pregame/postgame elements in the same year, add the show first. Then add the pregame/postgame elements and intertwine them with the existing show element. Don't add the show one year and take it out the next year or have it totally disconnected from newly added pregame/postgame elements. That's what they did in Madden 11.

[rangerrick012]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

Good point. I got so high on my network broadcast presentation "soap box", I forgot about the pregame/postgame additions. That said, the fact that there aren't more network elements, the pregame storylines are broken and there isnt a coherent "Show" element to tie it all together, makes it pretty forgettable. I feel like the next thing that would be said is "they can't do everything in one year" which I understand. However, they can implement it in a more sensible way, IMO. If they cant add both a show element and pregame/postgame elements in the same year, add the show first. Then add the pregame/postgame elements and intertwine them with the existing show element. Don't add the show one year and take it out the next year or have it totally disconnected from newly added pregame/postgame elements. That's what they did in Madden 11.

When I look at the things that other development teams have done, I say the 'can't do it all in one year' argument should be officially thrown out the window. The bar has been raised, and no doubt Madden 12 and on have to step it up in ALL areas - gameplay, presentation, commentary, and career modes. It seems that they are making the effort, just hope it doesn't all go for naught once again.

[at23steelers]

Why I graded it so low during the game is because they don't have the stats as I mentioned and also when they show the sideline interactions, the announcers don't talk about what they're showing, which makes it seem insignificant and forgettable. This is why most people, like myself press A and skip over it, because there is nothing there that you haven't seen before, and seems old and repetitive. Imagine, on replays if the announcers analyze the play whether it be on offense or on defense, and point out interesting things, then there is a good chance of watching it. However, if you're just going to show me the same thing I just saw but just in a different angle and putting it in such slow-motion, that it takes 10 seconds to watch it, I will skip over it, and continue playing or pause the game and go to instant replay myself. To cut down on that time, for instance, on the QB to WR deep ball throws, have a split screen of QB getting hit on left side and WR running route and trying to catch ball on right side. On another replay, calculate how fast the defense is putting pressure on the QB. Just like the pre-game intro, I have heard the comparing the two QB's a thousand times, and the win chant hundreds of times, so now I just skip over them. However, if they had specific keys to the game, and specific key player comparisons, with unique chants, then I would watch it every time. No matter how good it may be, if it's the same thing every time, you won't watch it after a few times of seeing it.

[PacMan3000]

^^You make a great point about the replays. And it's probably not thought of that much because it's simply not in Madden.

But replays are supposed to be informative. They're supposed to illustrate how that play effectively happened. They aren't just supposed to show you what you just watched from a different angle.

So we need to see Chris Collinsworth break out the telestrater and start circling players he'd like us to watch on the replay. If the quarterback gets sacked, we need to see which OL screwed up his block, not see a close up shot of the QB getting sacked. We already know he got sacked.

I love watching a great play I made over again as much as the next. But Madden 12 needs to implement ways in which the commentary and replays work to both entertain and inform the gamer.

The backtrack feature was on the right track, but it was too long and happened too infrequently.

I also think, in general, there just needs to be much more conversation and commentary. There are far too many plays I run in Madden 11 where Chris just won't say anything. Or Gus won't call my players by their names ("he made the catch" or "the quarterback drops back").

It makes everything so impersonal and off-putting.