Challenge Flag?

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by purplerat

Well the whole notion of a challenge system in a video game is rather silly as obviously the game always knows the correct call and is purposely making mistakes to add to the overall feel of realism. I get why it's in the game but it is silly, at least up until the point that the game purposely makes a bad call that you can't challenge for some reason and costs you a game.

That I will disagree with as the point of it is to add to the realism of the game.

Real life referees make mistakes, it happens.

If the video game has to purposely screw up here and there to replicate that realism I'm okay with that.

I just wish the challenge system were put in better.

[GlennN]

Quote: Originally Posted by purplerat

There's no option to choose what to challenge because that's not how NFL challenges work. When a coach challenges a play he is challenging the "ruling on the field". The official then reviews the play and all reviewable aspects of the play. Occasionally you'll even see a coaches challenge work against them because of this. For example if running back breaks a long run down the sideline and is stopped just as he tries to extend the ball across the goal line. The coach of the offensive team challenges because he thinks the ball did break the goal line and should be a touchdown. But under review the ref sees the running back stepped out of bounds near the beginning of the run. The ruling on the field will be reversed to move the ball back to where the runner stepped out even though obviously the coach wasn't challenging that.

Understood, but shouldn't we still be able to challenge the play at all? NFL coaches can throw the red flag on any play. If it's in the game . . .

[woodjer]

I can go either way with the challenges. On the one hand, I agree that programming a system to purposely make a mistake can cause issues. This is evidenced by the incorrect reviews that seem to happen at the exact wrong times. The system doesn't believe it made an error because it wasn't programmed to believe it was incorrect. Therefore, the call stands even though it was obviously wrong. I do like that it adds to the realism though.

Speaking of realism, I do have a slight issue with not being able to see the replay before deciding whether or not to challenge. You hear it all the time when analysts think a challenge decision is questionable. "Well, they must have seen something upstairs that told them to challenge" is an example. I get that KNOWING if it's right or not hurts the realism but my suggestion would be to give 1 default angle and have a countdown window in the replay section for being able to challenge. I'd say inside of 10 seconds (like the defense playcall counter) and you can still challenge but after that, you lose that option. Leave it at one camera angle and you'll have to try to determine whether that shows enough to overturn it.

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

That I will disagree with as the point of it is to add to the realism of the game. Real life referees make mistakes, it happens. If the video game has to purposely screw up here and there to replicate that realism I'm okay with that. I just wish the challenge system were put in better.

I understand adding mistakes to make the game feel more realistic but nobody plays the game for the refs and it's kind of a cop out to "realism" because if they actually put in more realistic mistakes people would be flipping about the game being broken. So they put in this lame challenge system and people complain about it being lame.

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by woodjer

Speaking of realism, I do have a slight issue with not being able to see the replay before deciding whether or not to challenge. You hear it all the time when analysts think a challenge decision is questionable. "Well, they must have seen something upstairs that told them to challenge" is an example. I get that KNOWING if it's right or not hurts the realism but my suggestion would be to give 1 default angle and have a countdown window in the replay section for being able to challenge. I'd say inside of 10 seconds (like the defense playcall counter) and you can still challenge but after that, you lose that option. Leave it at one camera angle and you'll have to try to determine whether that shows enough to overturn it.

Keep in mind that in a real football game the coach on the sideline has a much different view than you do as a gamer. When you are playing the video game you already have a much better view of what happened than what a real coach does even just in real time. Having a little window to show a quick replay would be nice but in reality you probably already had a better look at the play in real time then what a coach might gathering looking quickly at a replay.

[tril]

Quote: Originally Posted by woodjer

I can go either way with the challenges. On the one hand, I agree that programming a system to purposely make a mistake can cause issues. This is evidenced by the incorrect reviews that seem to happen at the exact wrong times. The system doesn't believe it made an error because it wasn't programmed to believe it was incorrect. Therefore, the call stands even though it was obviously wrong. I do like that it adds to the realism though. Speaking of realism, I do have a slight issue with not being able to see the replay before deciding whether or not to challenge. You hear it all the time when analysts think a challenge decision is questionable. "Well, they must have seen something upstairs that told them to challenge" is an example. I get that KNOWING if it's right or not hurts the realism but my suggestion would be to give 1 default angle and have a countdown window in the replay section for being able to challenge. I'd say inside of 10 seconds (like the defense playcall counter) and you can still challenge but after that, you lose that option. Leave it at one camera angle and you'll have to try to determine whether that shows enough to overturn it.

but usually they show a replay anyways. so you can challenge based off of the initial replay. feet in-bounds vs out of bounds, and if you are on defense you have until the offense snaps the ball again. so there shouldn't be a countdown.

there should be multiple challenge options as well. hate to bring this up but 2k's challenge flag system was implemented the right way. From what I recall you could challenge a play anytime you wanted not just on questionable calls. In Madden the challenge option only seems to appear on questionable calls

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by tril

there should be multiple challenge options as well. hate to bring this up but 2k's challenge flag system was implemented the right way. From what I recall you could challenge a play anytime you wanted not just on questionable calls. In Madden the challenge option only seems to appear on questionable calls

You can challenge through the menu on most plays. The in-game popup only occurs on close calls but on most plays you can challenge and at the very least have a ruling on the spot of the ball.

One thing to keep in mind when comparing current games to older ones is that in the NFL the number of plays a coach can challenge on has been greatly reduced in favor of automatic/booth reviews. I think a lot of people are unaware of this. For example I regularly have online opponents pausing and I assume looking for "Challenge Play" on turnovers, TDs and inside the 2 minute warnings - all plays that coaches cannot challenge in the NFL. In the most they could challenge on turnovers and TDs so it makes sense older games allowed for those reviews.

[Skopin]

I think the challenge system is broken anyway. I have never had a play overturned when I challenge it, regardless of how bad the call was. The only time I have ever seen a play overturned is when the booth or the CPU challenges. I had one play that the CPU threw a sideline pass, and the guy only got one foot down. I challenged, saw the replays, and they weren't even remotely close to touching down with the other foot in bounds, but I lost the challenge. It's kinda ridiculous.

On a side note, is there any way to challenge a play without having to go into the start menu?