Challenge Flag?

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skopin

I think the challenge system is broken anyway. I have never had a play overturned when I challenge it, regardless of how bad the call was. The only time I have ever seen a play overturned is when the booth or the CPU challenges. I had one play that the CPU threw a sideline pass, and the guy only got one foot down. I challenged, saw the replays, and they weren't even remotely close to touching down with the other foot in bounds, but I lost the challenge. It's kinda ridiculous.

I've seen many plays overturned on challenge flags. But what you describe with the receiver not getting the foot down and still being ruled a catch is an inherent problem with a review/challenge system in a video game. That's because a video game is doing the opposite of what happens in real life in terms of what you see happen. In real life you see the play happen then determine what happened after the fact based on what you saw. In a video game the game first decides what is going to happen then attempts to create a visual of what it already determined has happened. So what happens in a case like what you describe is that the game decided both feet were down but did a poor job in rendering the animation. Yes it's a flaw but it's a flaw that happens in every video game so you kind of have to accept that if you are playing a game in the first place.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by purplerat

I've seen many plays overturned on challenge flags. But what you describe with the receiver not getting the foot down and still being ruled a catch is an inherent problem with a review/challenge system in a video game. That's because a video game is doing the opposite of what happens in real life in terms of what you see happen. In real life you see the play happen then determine what happened after the fact based on what you saw. In a video game the game first decides what is going to happen then attempts to create a visual of what it already determined has happened. So what happens in a case like what you describe is that the game decided both feet were down but did a poor job in rendering the animation. Yes it's a flaw but it's a flaw that happens in every video game so you kind of have to accept that if you are playing a game in the first place.

I agree with your explanation, but that's kinda where my issue with it is. If what I see is completely different than what the game engine says happened, then it's broken. I'm not angry about it by any means, but it can be frustrating, especially on a 4th quarter late game drive.

For example, I was up 30-19 (I think; I know I was up by 11). The CPU drove down the field, and opted to kick a field goal on 4th down. So that means that they had to kick the field goal, recover an onside kick, score, and get a 2-pt conversion. So they recovered the kick. I was ok with that. The real issue came on a 4th and long (around 8 or so). They threw a 30yd pass that the receiver caught out of bounds. There was no question, even before the replay, that he only got one foot down. It wasn't even a sideline catch animation. I challenged and lost, which put them on my side of the field with about 2 minutes left. I ended up losing the game in OT after fumbling on the opening drive, but it shouldn't even have gotten that far.

Anyway, hopefully they can make the challenge system realistic on the new systems. It's a huge part of the game.

[BTownSlinger]

It is broken an in Madden you SHOULD be able to choose what you want to challenge.

Reason I say that is I've been in situations where there was a fumble (really wasn't) and that challenge challenged the spot of the ball after the recovery verses whether the player was down by contact to begin with.

What's funny is I think the system was pretty good back in Madden 06 PC when I used to play... And there was never any problem of the challenge option randomly disappearing!

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by BTownSlinger

It is broken an in Madden you SHOULD be able to choose what you want to challenge. Reason I say that is I've been in situations where there was a fumble (really wasn't) and that challenge challenged the spot of the ball after the recovery verses whether the player was down by contact to begin with. What's funny is I think the system was pretty good back in Madden 06 PC when I used to play... And there was never any problem of the challenge option randomly disappearing!

Maybe I'm wasting my time with this as another poster said I would be, but if the point of having challenges is realism (and what other reason could there be?) then choosing what you challenge is wholly incorrect.

I'm not sure if you don't understand that is not the way challenges work in the NFL or if you do but think the option somehow fixes something. If it's the latter then there is a logical disconnect in think that the missing piece in making challenges work correctly is simply letting you say what you are challenging. What I mean by that is if the game doesn't currently know to review something or thinks the call is correct, you selecting a menu option isn't going to change anything. You might as well just shout at your TV screen what aspect of the play you want challenged for all the good a menu option would do.

Such an option is putting the cart before the horse and ultimately irrelevant. That's because on any challenge the game should look at every reviewable aspect of the play. If the game doesn't know to look at something then you can't simply menu-option it into telling the game to do so. The game certainly SHOULD NOT be purposely ignoring reviewable aspects of challenged plays simply because you didn't request it be reviewed. That would be wrong and thus having such an option is unnecessary.

[GoinCakeless]

Point here is, if you said you LOST the game because of it, its because you can't challenge within 2 mins in the 2nd and 4th quarter.

[BTownSlinger]

Quote: Originally Posted by purplerat

Maybe I'm wasting my time with this as another poster said I would be, but if the point of having challenges is realism (and what other reason could there be?) then choosing what you challenge is wholly incorrect. I'm not sure if you don't understand that is not the way challenges work in the NFL or if you do but think the option somehow fixes something. If it's the latter then there is a logical disconnect in think that the missing piece in making challenges work correctly is simply letting you say what you are challenging. What I mean by that is if the game doesn't currently know to review something or thinks the call is correct, you selecting a menu option isn't going to change anything. You might as well just shout at your TV screen what aspect of the play you want challenged for all the good a menu option would do. Such an option is putting the cart before the horse and ultimately irrelevant. That's because on any challenge the game should look at every reviewable aspect of the play. If the game doesn't know to look at something then you can't simply menu-option it into telling the game to do so. The game certainly SHOULD NOT be purposely ignoring reviewable aspects of challenged plays simply because you didn't request it be reviewed. That would be wrong and thus having such an option is unnecessary.

You're both right and wrong. They actually do ask you what you're challenging as with fumbled it COULD be a spot of the ball or whether it was a fumble. Now, that being said both of those things would be reviewed regardless of that you challenged.

I know how it works. To get around terrible programming I'm saying there should be an option. But you are wrong for the most part on how it actually works.

If you disagree about the feature that's one thing, and that's okay. But I'm not wrong.

[Hyperion]

Has anybody else experienced not being able to challenge under 2 minutes in ANY quarter?

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by BTownSlinger

You're both right and wrong. They actually do ask you what you're challenging as with fumbled it COULD be a spot of the ball or whether it was a fumble. Now, that being said both of those things would be reviewed regardless of that you challenged. I know how it works. To get around terrible programming I'm saying there should be an option. But you are wrong for the most part on how it actually works. If you disagree about the feature that's one thing, and that's okay. But I'm not wrong.

If the game does not know what to review then how can there be an option? Or if there is an option it's just a facade. You can't force the game to look at something, it has to know to look at it. And if it knows to look at it then it should be looking at it regardless of any such option. Hence an option is irrelevant.