2010 Pirates

[MizzyMike05]

I'm really digging all the pirates talk going on right now. It's good to see people out there that pay attention to my team as much as I do.

Quote: Originally Posted by steelers312213

I can't believe people are calling for Huntington's head already. His drafting has been terrific. He's taken the best position player and best pitcher available in two drafts, and then drafted a catching prospect that nobody else would have, who has turned out to have some star qualities so far (although it's still early for him). Not to mention all the pitching he's loaded up on in the past two drafts. Plus, you're even seeing failed Littlefield picks like Walker and Moskos thrive under Huntington's new farm system. Walker could be the rookie of the year this year. For where our team and farm system was before he got there, to where it is now, it's quite the difference. With the trades, I don't think he's done bad at all. He's gotten good value in return for everybody except Bay, although Bryan Morris is looking pretty impressive. Only thing is LaRoche was awful and can't even produce as a bench/utility player, Moss couldn't even hit in an MLB lineup, and Craig Hansen hasn't even played yet, has he? This was the only "bad" trade I'd say Neal made, mainly because Hansen and Moss were obviously not going to do anything for this club. McLouth? He wasn't even a good player. He got sent down this year didn't he? Guy played way above his head for one season, Neal knew it, and dumped him at his peak for a handful of prospects. Morton has good stuff, despite being sooooo bad this season. I think he has the talent to turn it around. While Locke is looking pretty good in A ball, and Gorkys has been on fire before his season-ending injury. With McCutchen and Tabata lurking right around the corner, who needed Nate McLouth? I think Neal definitely won that trade. Sanchez for Alderson, I still think was a great move. You know we weren't going to find many clubs that would give up one of their top prospects for Freddy freakin Sanchez. Alderson may have tanked since coming to our farm, but the upside is there. While Sanchez is just a singles hitting 2nd baseman, a glorified utility player since he fluked his way to a batting title, really. Plus he's injured constantly. Nady for McCutchen, Ohlendorf, Karstens, Tabata? You can't beat that trade. That was an excellent trade, probably the best Neal made. He took a guy that is a DL regular and having a career season, and shipped him off for three pitchers, and a top OF prospect. None of the three pitchers may be aces or anything, but all are solid back of the rotation guys who can contribute. On top of a prospect who has star potential. And the Yankees got what? Half a season of Nady, didn't make the playoffs, and then Nady got hurt again the next year and never even played for them again. You'd rather have Nyjer Morgan over Milledge? I surely wouldn't. Plus, they also got Hanrahan in that deal. Both have worked out. Nyjer, not so much. This go around, I think they hit another HR on the trades. Getting rid of an aging relief pitcher like Dotel for a top prospect? He might be a problematic prospect, but if the talent is there then why not take the risk? You're only losing a very replaceable Dotel, while gaining a possible star. Josh Hamilton was once in that same position. McDonald can probably be a solid starter for us, too. They even got somewhat of a return for garbage like Javier Lopez, which is pretty hard to believe. You guys gotta remember that it's not like we were dealing elite players or something. We were dealing a bunch of irrelevant free agent pickups that any team could have signed, yet none did. But we got a return for them. We basically got a return of some decent talent, for aging crap that nobody wanted to begin with. That's good. When you look at some of other teams trades, like the horrid return the DBacks got for Dan Haren, or the horrid return(s) Houston got for Oswalt and Berkman, I would say what Huntington is doing looks pretty damn good. Regardless, he deserves at LEAST five years to complete his plan. I feel we'll see a big change in this club's competitiveness as early as next season. Will they hit .500? Probably not, but I bet you there's signs of great things.

^^^ great read. I like what you have to say. NH has definitely been the best GM the pirates have had in awhile. Pretty much every trade he has made has given us something in return. I agree that he should at least have 5 years to complete his plan. I just think that we need a new manager and coaching staff. I do like JR, but I just don't think he is a manager nor does he fit into our system. We need an experienced guy to come in and manage our team, like a Buck Showalter. I really hope that Huntington realizes this and he makes the appropriate move. I think Bobby Valentine would be a great fit here.

And if Huntington can get Taillon and Stetson Allie to sign, then we are in pretty good shape down on the farm. But I believe that if he fails to sign either or both, then it may be looked at as a failed draft.

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by MizzyMike05

I'm really digging all the pirates talk going on right now. It's good to see people out there that pay attention to my team as much as I do. ^^^ great read. I like what you have to say. NH has definitely been the best GM the pirates have had in awhile. Pretty much every trade he has made has given us something in return. I agree that he should at least have 5 years to complete his plan. I just think that we need a new manager and coaching staff. I do like JR, but I just don't think he is a manager nor does he fit into our system. We need an experienced guy to come in and manage our team, like a Buck Showalter. I really hope that Huntington realizes this and he makes the appropriate move. I think Bobby Valentine would be a great fit here. And if Huntington can get Taillon and Stetson Allie to sign, then we are in pretty good shape down on the farm. But I believe that if he fails to sign either or both, then it may be looked at as a failed draft.

they have sparks of a good team , i think licoln, duke and if macdonald continues what he did in his first game with the team it may be the beginning. i think there spots that they really need help other than pitcher is right field and catcher. i don't know if the guy they just got will be anygood, but i also like the thirty year old they had last week can't remember his name.

[MizzyMike05]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hova57

they have sparks of a good team , i think licoln, duke and if macdonald continues what he did in his first game with the team it may be the beginning. i think there spots that they really need help other than pitcher is right field and catcher. i don't know if the guy they just got will be anygood, but i also like the thirty year old they had last week can't remember his name.

the 30 year old catcher is erik kratz. his bat kinda sucks. he probably won't be on the team next year. tony sanchez is our catcher of the future. eta for him is probably mid 2012. lincoln has some command work to do. duke is nothing but a #3 starter at best. i hope macdonald can keep up a good pace but i bet he won't be any better than another #3.

[ohyeahbaby123]

El Toro!!!!

Man, I need to catch up on my Pirates baseball. I can never seem to get into it enough during the season, which means I'm not very informed on prospects and such.

However, and correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm pretty sure I will be), is this the direction the team is heading in?

1st base: Jones
2nd base: Walker
SS: ???
3rd: Alvarez
OF: McCutchens, Tabata, Gorkys/Milledge?
C: Tony Sanchez

(I have no clue about any of the pitching or middle infield prospects )

[MizzyMike05]

I can't stop watching the Alvarez walk-off home run highlight on mlb.com. It keeps giving me goosebumps and I am so excited for next year.

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by steelers312213

I can't believe people are calling for Huntington's head already. His drafting has been terrific. He's taken the best position player and best pitcher available in two drafts, and then drafted a catching prospect that nobody else would have, who has turned out to have some star qualities so far (although it's still early for him). Not to mention all the pitching he's loaded up on in the past two drafts. Plus, you're even seeing failed Littlefield picks like Walker and Moskos thrive under Huntington's new farm system. Walker could be the rookie of the year this year. SNIP...

Since you got banned, I guess you won't read this. However, I want to make it clear that I don't think NH should be fired at this point. He deserves a chance to see out his plan (unless of course, things go very awry). However, I just have not been that happy with some of his moves. Also, let's not talk about "failed prospects" like Walker and Moskos under DL's system thriving under NH's. That's foolish. They're the same players...just older, wiser and possibly realizing their potential. That comes with age and time in the minors.

You only listed the main positives and left off the negatives. You have to view things by their entirety and not cherry pick what you want. The Nady trade was great. The McLouth trade was good because he was sold at his highest point (although I think they should have received more as the only guy I like from that trade is Locke...Morton and Gorkys don't impress me much). The Burnett/Morgan trade was good as well.

The Bay trade was terrible. Even if Morris pans out as a legit top of the rotation starter, that trade still is terrible. Trading a talent like Bay should bring more in return than a guy like Bryan Morris. The Iwamura trade was terrible as well. Outside of NH, who didn't realize Iwamura was finished? The Wilson/Snell trade, Torres trade, Bautista trade, Gorzo/Grabow trade were all poor deals. He thought it was a good idea to bring back Brian Bixler earlier this year. I also never liked the Romulo Sanchez deal. Why trade a hulking flamethrower with potential for a guy like Eric Hacker?

I also wouldn't compare what other teams are receiving in return for players to suggest NH is doing a good job. If other teams are making poor trades, that has nothing to do with the Pirates. That's like suggesting that if someone else jumped off a bridge, you would as well. If it's not a trading market, don't make any moves. Simple as that.

Here's a little known fact... Those Major League scouts that are responsible for giving NH info in regard to trades are mainly holdovers from the Dave Littlefield regime. NH never replaced them. He did however overhaul the entire minor league scouting department (and with great results so far IMO).

With all that said, most moves take a few years to realize whether they were good or bad. There's a very good chance I've been too hard on the moves and need to see them play out. There's also a good chance you and some others need to do the same. Regardless, the organization is better than it was previously - which is good. It's just not moving fast enough for someone such as myself who remembers every single losing season (and I do understand it can't change overnight). I still remember being in high school and sitting on my bed as Sid Bream rounded third and scored...breaking all our hearts. For the younger generation, my guess is all the losing isn't as bad as they haven't experienced the winning or just aren't sick of the losing yet. One of these days I'll make my way back to PNC Park, but I haven't reached that point yet. I still enjoy the heck out of the Pirates and watch them on TV as often as possible (only have time for a game or 2 per week), but I'm not a fan of spending my hard earned money on an organization I don't completely trust yet. Hopefully that day will come soon.

[mjb2124]

Oh yeah, quite a game last night. I saw the highlights this morning. Gotta love Alvarez.

[M11x]

Pitching coach Dave Kerwin...I mean....Joe Kerrigan and bench coach Gary Varsho were fired today by Russell. I'm not surprised about Kerrigan but kinda surprised with Varsho. It seems, reading in between the lines, that there was some conflict between Russell, Kerrigan, Varsho and the front office.