2010 Pirates

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

He's a fifth starter, but he's been very unlucky this year. The defense is worse than it was last year, and his HR/FB rate is higher than it should be. His xFIP/FIP are very close to his totals from last year.

That's my thought. He could possibly be a decent 5th starter...although I'm not sure I even want him as that. Looking at his stats, the only good looking year he's pitched is the 84.5 innings in 2005. Other than that, he's basically been hit hard and often. However, he has been healthy for the most part and does give the Pirates some innings.

Also color me unimpressed with his stuff. I don't see much of anything I like in his arsenal in terms of velocity and movement. If he weren't LH, he'd probably be hard pressed to reach the majors.

I will admit that I'm probably more critical of Duke than some as I've never been a huge fan of his. I even thought in 2005 that he was getting by with "smoke and mirrors" while many around here were proclaiming him to be the next great pitcher. If I'm not mistaken, that's the same year Felix Hernandez made his debut and I still recall many Pirate fans upset that Felix was getting most of the publicity. There was a reason for that IMO.

[BurghFan]

Buccos Win, Buccos Win!!! Finally, the losing streak is over and Jeff Karstens gets the 1st win by a SP since May 18th. Nice to see Alvarez get his first hit too, now maybe he'll be able to relax a bit more at the plate. Andrew McCutchen always seems to be enjoying himself out there too.

[M11x]

Starting pitching might hinder the young bucs growth for some time. Obviously, Morton and Ohlendorf need to progress and develop consistency as the most likely starters to make the jump to Pittsburgh in the future are probably still a season plus away. Karstens has pitched well, compared to other Pirate starters, but he should probably be a mid reliever instead of a starter on the MLB level. How about JR displaying that he has a pulse today and possibly rallying the club after getting tossed...

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Volkswagen3

Starting pitching might hinder the young bucs growth for some time. Obviously, Morton and Ohlendorf need to progress and develop consistency as the most likely starters to make the jump to Pittsburgh in the future are probably still a season plus away. Karstens has pitched well, compared to other Pirate starters, but he should probably be a mid reliever instead of a starter on the MLB level. How about JR displaying that he has a pulse today and possibly rallying the club after getting tossed...

I really do think 1-2 guys from that Altoona rotation will make it and be solid contributors. The bigger issue is the lack of IMPACT starting pitching at the upper levels. I think there are still some impact relievers and potential hitters who can rise through the system quickly, but the starting pitching that could be special is all far away.

I don't buy JR rallying the club by getting tossed since it's always been reported that he'll yell at the club -- just doesn't do it much on the field because he thinks it's stupid and unprofessional (and it is even if the fans think it helps).

[M11x]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

I really do think 1-2 guys from that Altoona rotation will make it and be solid contributors. The bigger issue is the lack of IMPACT starting pitching at the upper levels. I think there are still some impact relievers and potential hitters who can rise through the system quickly, but the starting pitching that could be special is all far away. I don't buy JR rallying the club by getting tossed since it's always been reported that he'll yell at the club -- just doesn't do it much on the field because he thinks it's stupid and unprofessional (and it is even if the fans think it helps).

This might be the perile that Russell anticipates. I guess it seems highlighted that he changed his behavior after Coonelly's comments regarding his extension and the current state of the team.

I like both Alderson and Owens but I'm not sure about Alderson. He shows flashes but currently lacks any kind of consistency. Other than those two, maybe Bryan Morris and then we wait.

[MizzyMike05]

I agree with pretty much everything you guys have to say. Our starting pitching doesn't look too good from the MLB level down to the A level. We really only have a few good prospects starting pitching wise, those being Owens and Morris. I hope Alderson can figure it out because I really like him and I have been following him for a bit now. He needs to re-discover his velocity, and develop some consistency. Hunter Strickland looks alright too, but he is probably years away from the MLB level.

We do have some good hitters in the system, but it just stinks that we have pretty much no middle infield prospect in the system. Hopefully by years end, Tony Sanchez is at the AAA level. I keep hearing that the Pirates are going to trade Ryan Doumit at the deadline, but i just don't think that's going to happen. He will probably be on our team until Tony Sanchez reaches the MLB level, and proves he can start almost everyday at catcher.

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by stusteelersqb5

Hopefully by years end, Tony Sanchez is at the AAA level.

I believe he was just promoted to High A ball so there's very little chance of that happening. I'd say "No Chance", but you never know.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Volkswagen3

This might be the perile that Russell anticipates. I guess it seems highlighted that he changed his behavior after Coonelly's comments regarding his extension and the current state of the team. I like both Alderson and Owens but I'm not sure about Alderson. He shows flashes but currently lacks any kind of consistency. Other than those two, maybe Bryan Morris and then we wait.

This is a lost year for Alderson because he changed his mechanics and is still looking for his lost velocity. He's so young for the Double-A level that it's not the worst thing if he doesn't progress right away either. Next year will be the best time to see if he's progressing at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by stusteelersqb5

I agree with pretty much everything you guys have to say. Our starting pitching doesn't look too good from the MLB level down to the A level. We really only have a few good prospects starting pitching wise, those being Owens and Morris. I hope Alderson can figure it out because I really like him and I have been following him for a bit now. He needs to re-discover his velocity, and develop some consistency. Hunter Strickland looks alright too, but he is probably years away from the MLB level. We do have some good hitters in the system, but it just stinks that we have pretty much no middle infield prospect in the system. Hopefully by years end, Tony Sanchez is at the AAA level. I keep hearing that the Pirates are going to trade Ryan Doumit at the deadline, but i just don't think that's going to happen. He will probably be on our team until Tony Sanchez reaches the MLB level, and proves he can start almost everyday at catcher.

If there is a time to trade Doumit, the time is now. He's healthy, still producing well for a catcher, and he has a friendly contract. At the same time, his catching is getting worse and his value can only decrease with time.

As for the Double-A rotation, I think Morris could be an elite guy, so I guess I should retract my earlier statement. I also think Justin Wilson has the next best chance to be an MLB-caliber SP -- before even Owens. He's averaging a ton of strikeouts, has his walks under control, and he's more developed at this point than Owens. That last point is based on Owens adding a new pitch to his repertoire this year -- a two-seam fastball -- while Wilson is just refining pitches (mainly his changeup). Owens will probably be at Double-A most of the year because at High-A he also refined a pitch and was there most of the year even while dominating the level. Owens is also a control pitcher, which usually means you want to take them slowly level by level if possible.

Quote: Originally Posted by mjb2124

I believe he was just promoted to High A ball so there's very little chance of that happening. I'd say "No Chance", but you never know.

Sanchez started the year at High-A (and the playoffs last year) so the thought was he would move to Double-A this summer -- similar to Pedro Alvarez the year before. His injury has set him back a bit, but the injury must not be too serious since he's still catching.