OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jason_19

I'm glad that you're planning on doing this. Are you going to be looking up 2012 pitch speeds on any other pitch f/x site or are you just going to enter the speeds by taking a certain amount off of each pitch that you already have documented. Either way, have you determined how much you're going to subtract from each pitch type? I can't remember exactly how it worked on MLB 11 when it comes to certain pitches, but I'm pretty sure that I remember that changeups needed to remain the same. Fastballs needed about 1.3-2.3 mph subtracted (depending on the speed and the type of fastball). Sliders needed 1.7-2.3 mph subtracted. I never figured out curveballs, but I think I went with subtracting 1.1-1.3 mph. I think I used the same for slurves. With that said, the softer a pitcher threw their fastball, the more he seemed to need subtracted off of it. For example, guys who had 90 mph fastballs in game seemed to be able to throw 93-94 fairly often and players who averaged 95 seemed to hardly ever throw 97. I ended up subtracting about 1.9-2.3 (depending on the pitcher) mph off of players who averaged 87-93 mph with their fastball and only about 1.7 mph off of players who averaged in the 94-95 range. On top of that, each type of fastball seemed to a little different than the other when it came to this. It seemed like 4 seam fastballs usually needed 1.9-2.3 mph subtracted from their average speed. Sinkers and 2 seam fastballs seemed to need less subtracted. It's been a while since I edited the speeds, so these numbers might not be exactly the way that it was, but it sounds right to me. I definitely wouldn't base any of your edits off of what I just typed. I just wanted to explain what I was asking. The whole in game system is silly and needs to be revamped.

yeah I noticed that too, from what I've seen, Brooks is faster by about 1/2 mph, but the CPU uses max effort so much that I might have to bump it down more, but then how do I deal with guys who save velocity for later in the game like Verlander? If I put him at 94 he won't be able to hit 98 or 99.

Quote: Originally Posted by BegBy

I agree with Jason in that the entire way speed is determined should be redone. Tim Lincecum is a perfect example this year. I haven't seen him throw over 92 more than 2 times and to be honest he's only hit 92 once or twice a game this season. He's throwing his stuff at pretty much an even 90, and I've even seen several at 89. In game, it's really hard to replicate. When I get him pitching 90, by middle innings I often see low fastballs drop to 86 and I've seen high fastballs hit 93 a couple times in a row. There are just certain numbers that I find difficult to actually average without large discrepancies. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, but a more refined system for how we execute pitch speed on the mound, and how the parameters of a pitch's speed while creating or editing would be a welcome change. I'm just taking a short lunch here and thought I'd see how this thread is doing. More people need to be excited for these edits. They change the game entirely and in a very good way.

To answer your previous post as well as this one, I tallied up the number of guys I gave a sinker to as their primary pitch and I got 85/652. Of those 85, 7 had velocity over 93 mph and all 7 had less than 80 movement. The only reason I give guys sinkers is because in-game it visually matches the movement these guys have in real life, I have noticed that if the CPU has a sinker that is low 90's he will pound the bottom of the zone if you punish anything up, but if you show that you can't hit a high fastball they will keep going to it.

For Lincecum I am planning the put his velocity at exactly 90, I'll run some tests with that and 1 tick under 90 as well.

Edit:

Begby if you're free, could you possibly compile a list of guys who you think made a substantial change in pitching style this year? That would include velocity, repertoire, and relief/starter conversions. I'll come up with a list of debuts and guys who missed 2011 unless you can do that as well. ESPN has a debut tracker and MLB depth charts has TJ surgery tracker, should help out a bit.

[BegBy]

I can take a stab at some guys that are pretty important. I'm busy this week, but I know some teams off the top of my head. The Jays, for example...their situation is a mess imo, and they are gonna have guys all over the place and a lot of them pitch a 2 seamer with a ton of movement now. When I get home later I'll pm you some stuff for sure.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by OSfan093

How will this affect the competitive balance when the minor leaguers come up and have really good sliders. Are you planning a sort of mass slider edit for minor leaguers with enough velocity?

Quote: Originally Posted by thebeaverbutcher

Yeah, I kinda have the same question... What would you recommended if we wanted to use the full 0-99 scale for sliders and cutters? I saw all of them, and you explained why they we so low. But I'm thinking ahead for when the CPU generates players, and the minor leaguers aren't on your scale

Just noticed these two posts, and yes I am planning to tweak minor leaguers as well. Here's Dylan Bundy (unedited) as an example:

Slider 84 mph, 63 break ---> 9.15 inches

I averaged all of the break ratings for an 84 mph slider in my chart and got 33.3, which would be about 4.84 inches

I could handle this a couple ways - 1. Universally drop mid 80's sliders by 30 points 2. Cut the ratings in half

For high 80's sliders (there aren't many), drop by 40 points or cut the ratings by 2/3rds

Cutters are more complicated, movement is all over the map. Probably can just leave it as is, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary yet, but if anyone wants to look over the minors more intensively, it wouldn't hurt.

[thebeaverbutcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Just noticed these two posts, and yes I am planning to tweak minor leaguers as well. Here's Dylan Bundy (unedited) as an example: Slider 84 mph, 63 break ---> 9.15 inches I averaged all of the break ratings for an 84 mph slider in my chart and got 33.3, which would be about 4.84 inches I could handle this a couple ways - 1. Universally drop mid 80's sliders by 30 points 2. Cut the ratings in half For high 80's sliders (there aren't many), drop by 40 points or cut the ratings by 2/3rds Cutters are more complicated, movement is all over the map. Probably can just leave it as is, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary yet, but if anyone wants to look over the minors more intensively, it wouldn't hurt.

How did you figure out that a slider, in game, with a 63 break is 9.15 inches?

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by thebeaverbutcher

How did you figure out that a slider, in game, with a 63 break is 9.15 inches?

Measured the break on my TV with a ruler, measured the plate, then compared

Seriously though, if you aim Bundy's slider down the middle in-game it ends up off of the outside corner, home plate is 17 inches wide, my movement formulas have 9.15 inches of movement for a slider equal to a 63 rating in-game.

[thebeaverbutcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Measured the break on my TV with a ruler, measured the plate, then compared Seriously though, if you aim Bundy's slider down the middle in-game it ends up off of the outside corner, home plate is 17 inches wide, my movement formulas have 9.15 inches of movement for a slider equal to a 63 rating in-game.

haha, ok. So if we want to change your slider ratings to fill up the rating bar, we should add 30?

Does that apply to cutters as well?

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by thebeaverbutcher

haha, ok. So if we want to change your slider ratings to fill up the rating bar, we should add 30? Does that apply to cutters as well?

Sure, the only guys I have with 90+ slider movement are Daniel Bard, Sergio Romo, and Mike Adams so I guess it wouldn't mess things up too much; the movement wouldn't look very realistic though.

a 99 cutter is 6.98 inches, roughly half of a 99 slider, so the same applies I guess.

[BegBy]

Trust me, his sliders not only look realistic and obey the laws of physics, but they are actually harder to hit. They break super fast now, right on the corners...hard to pick up. It helps the pitcher also in the regard that since they break much more realistically you will get find yourself tempting to let them go and sometimes it doesn't pay off and you get rung up. With max break sliders they loop in and are so easy to read and a ton of them scream off the plate and get called for balls.

I'll also add that cutter movement is more realistic, but some them need to be bumped up a little bit. Cutters don't have 2 seam or runner movement, typically. So if it looks like it's off the plate or borderline and snaps in, you can get fooled. The 2 pitches are often mistaken and I feel the edits accurately represent the pitches very nicely.

Just my 2 cents.