Show 13 lineup logic

[econoodle]

Quote: Originally Posted by ravens2k

I've said this all along for the AI trade logic too (particularly in RTTS mode). We should have a "franchise icon" box that we can check while editing rosters. If this box is checked, the player can not be traded by the AI, and will always be resigned to the team they are on. If the box is unchecked, the AI can trade that player at will. That's one of the things that has always bugged me about the game over the years is how often players are traded around by the AI trade logic. Teams are decimated by trades in two years time. This is an easy solution to stop that... The AI would not have to "know" who Derek Jeter is for instance, it would simply know to keep that player on his current team (until the box is unchecked)... presumably the Yankees....

Russell mentioned in the psnation podcast that teams player turnover year to year has been toned down a bunch.

that being said, i would love a madden style player role system.

[MrOldboy]

I'd also be in favor of some sort of role system. Defensive catcher, power focused DH, etc. They could be dictated by the ratings and automatically assigned so you don't have a situation where slow hitter being labeled as a leadoff hitter by the player and that causing weird situations with the logic. So if a player has low contact, high power, low defense ratings, maybe the game assigns him the power DH role and that dictates contracts, trades, etc like Knight mentioned, but it could also dictate to a point (not the end all) the lineup logic.

Look at a player like Darwin Barney, OK numbers offensively as a 2B for the most part, but he has been cited as being put in the starting lineup because in part due to his glove. They gave other players starts at second to try and find more offense but after a while Barney was labeled the starter and played nearly every game there. The Cubs don't really have a replacement to consider for Barney right now, but if someone like Logan Watkins gets a shot in the future and is a better offensive player I wonder how the Cubs would handle that. In the game now he would probably be replaced by Watkins if his offensive ratings were better, but the Cubs in real life might value Barney's glove to the point where he starts even if he puts up slightly worse numbers offensively (and as a result he has worse offensive ratings in the game). It could be a label like "defense first" that make the CPU think a bit more about a player like Barney. I'd love to see choices like this in the game feel more organic instead of artificial as it does now. Even if Watkins got the start over Barney, at least we'd know the game took more into account than before and it could make these types of decisions feel more organic and less robotic in the game.

I feel like the devs are moving in this direction already though, trying to capture some more of the human element of baseball (player deterioration, push/pull system, scouting, team tendencies, etc). So in the future I'd love to see them keep going down that route, to continue to add more things to make the AI in the game appear less robotic and more organic. Even though that "improved" AI would still be robotic in the end, it would maybe just appear less robotic to the end user.

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrOldboy

I'd also be in favor of some sort of role system. Defensive catcher, power focused DH, etc. They could be dictated by the ratings and automatically assigned so you don't have a situation where slow hitter being labeled as a leadoff hitter by the player and that causing weird situations with the logic. So if a player has low contact, high power, low defense ratings, maybe the game assigns him the power DH role and that dictates contracts, trades, etc like Knight mentioned, but it could also dictate to a point (not the end all) the lineup logic. Look at a player like Darwin Barney, OK numbers offensively as a 2B for the most part, but he has been cited as being put in the starting lineup because in part due to his glove. They gave other players starts at second to try and find more offense but after a while Barney was labeled the starter and played nearly every game there. The Cubs don't really have a replacement to consider for Barney right now, but if someone like Logan Watkins gets a shot in the future and is a better offensive player I wonder how the Cubs would handle that. In the game now he would probably be replaced by Watkins if his offensive ratings were better, but the Cubs in real life might value Barney's glove to the point where he starts even if he puts up slightly worse numbers offensively (and as a result he has worse offensive ratings in the game). It could be a label like "defense first" that make the CPU think a bit more about a player like Barney. I'd love to see choices like this in the game feel more organic instead of artificial as it does now. Even if Watkins got the start over Barney, at least we'd know the game took more into account than before and it could make these types of decisions feel more organic and less robotic in the game. I feel like the devs are moving in this direction already though, trying to capture some more of the human element of baseball (player deterioration, push/pull system, scouting, team tendencies, etc). So in the future I'd love to see them keep going down that route, to continue to add more things to make the AI in the game appear less robotic and more organic. Even though that "improved" AI would still ge robotic in the end, it would maybe just appear less robotic to the end user.

This would be fine.
But it would be more of MANAGER TENDENCIES...than roles.
I'm hoping for both one day though!

M.K.
Knight165

[MrOldboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

This would be fine. But it would be more of MANAGER TENDENCIES...than roles. I'm hoping for both one day though! M.K. Knight165

I think that they would serve different purposes though. Roles would make it so the AI (manager or whoever) looks at a player similarly around the league. I think nearly every manager would use a player like Adam Dunn or Denard Span similarly. And signings could really be affected by this. Maybe a team is looking for a super-sub infielder or needs a DH badly.

I've never really thought to hard about manager tendencies, glad you mentioned it. I'd love to see some real life stats being used for manager tendencies. How often do they sac-bunt, do they let pitchers swing away with 2 strikes, do they make every hitter take on 3-0, how often do they hit and run. Maybe a bit much to ask for that much detail to be honest. Could be really amazing if some variability between managers shows itself in the game. Imagine knowing a manager often lets his big guys swing away on 3-0, how would you handle your next pitch? Could be awesome if done right.

[seanjeezy]

Another possibility that could work would be to factor in contract status as a tiebreaker... Real life GM's try to justify their expenditures no matter how bad, notable examples include Frenchy, Santana, Michael Young, Figgins, etc. etc. If these guys weren't being paid millions of dollars they wouldn't see the light of day.

[MrOldboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Another possibility that could work would be to factor in contract status as a tiebreaker... Real life GM's try to justify their expenditures no matter how bad, notable examples include Frenchy, Santana, Michael Young, Figgins, etc. etc. If these guys weren't being paid millions of dollars they wouldn't see the light of day.

Exactly, it could be a factor in why the game labels a player a starter. Maybe that label is made by the organization and not even the manager. In the Kinsler example, maybe the organization and/or manager play Kinsler everyday because of the long and large contract given to him and gives him much more of a leash.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Player roles and manager tendancies are on my wishlist every year.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Or you just could set the percentage of playing time like 2K did years back. It was a favorite of mine. You could program a person, Michael Young, for example for playing time. Kinsler could be set on the depth chart at 89%. With Young at the other 11%. That way Kinsler wouldn't be benched against righties. Because the depth chart is the influence. Kinsler would always play 89% of the games or 144 games. I love the Show, bought the last 3 and loved it, but just like 2K Today or whatever it was called, this feature was excellent. Maybe this is tougher to program, I don't know, but I've always campaigned for the feature.