2014 OSFM HYBRID ROSTER - V3 Released

[jfk014]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

If you don't see any CAPs at all for those PSNs, you are doing something wrong. They have both made and uploaded quite a few individual players. If you don't see the exact CAP you are looking for, then that's another matter.

He was recently call up so im not surprise he not in the roster.

[abcabc]

how is starter stamina ratings determined for a given pitcher? I used Michael Pineda NYYfor the first time yesterday, he tired out after about 80-85 pitches, he was completely out of energy bar is what i mean. pitching at allstar, classic pitching... held down the X for power pitches about 5 pitches.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by abcabc

how is starter stamina ratings determined for a given pitcher? I used Michael Pineda NYYfor the first time yesterday, he tired out after about 80-85 pitches, he was completely out of energy bar is what i mean. pitching at allstar, classic pitching... held down the X for power pitches about 5 pitches.

It was determined by IP/start. Pineda is not exactly a beacon of endurance. His highest pitch total this year is 100 and he's averaging 5 2/3 innings per start. You can pitch with an empty stamina bar and the stamina numbers are designed that way. If you are at 85 pitches and the bar is empty, no reason you can't get to 100 as long as he's still effective. I haven't noticed an increased injury risk really at all.

[abcabc]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

It was determined by IP/start. Pineda is not exactly a beacon of endurance. His highest pitch total this year is 100 and he's averaging 5 2/3 innings per start. You can pitch with an empty stamina bar and the stamina numbers are designed that way. If you are at 85 pitches and the bar is empty, no reason you can't get to 100 as long as he's still effective. I haven't noticed an increased injury risk really at all.

hi there, wow so all the starters in the roster got their stamina tabulated from IP/start. I thought it was through something else like personal input from you roster guys. IP/start, the problem is no all starts conclude with the starter being taken out of the game due to him getting tired. Sometimes it's due to him getting hammered or runners in scoring position in a tight game or whatever... meaning there are instances through starts where the IP/start is what it is not because they represent his fatigue. Like Some starters are coming back from injury and their first two starts might be pulled after 5-6 innings for a 90 pitch pitchcount. I think Pineda had some of those. Wasnt he even ejected from a game due to Pine Tar, that would hurt his ip/start avg. He also was a guy coming off shoulder woes last season into this spring training, he was likely on a innings limit even if he hadn't suffered his injury and pine tar ejection this year.

Like I was watching McCarthy on the NYY about 3 weeks ago on TV... 115pitches, his 115th pitch, a 94 or 95MPH fastball, i made a mental note. Tonight's NYY starter Shane Greene, his start last week he did around 110 pitches in 5+innings... he was still able to still throw hard, I dont remember specific numbers like I did for McCarthy... Ill have to play games w/ both of these pitchers... but i'm just wondering... if Pineda in the roster is any indication... the problem with how the Show handles 'stamina' and fatigue is once it sets in and you see the warning on screen... the next 10-20 pitches are sorta tightrope kinds of pitches... I think if you do the 'eye test' to the starters in MLB, it is someone like 39 yr old Kuroda that has dropoff in his stuff after 90 pitches... actually on NYY broadcast they went through his metrics and it's evident. IMHO most of the starters in MLB, when translated into the show, should not see the popup 'tiring' message and not experience their mojo losing punch until after he tosses 95-105 pitches, regardless of the IP per start average. I do know that the starter stamina slider can curve the entire roster up to fix for me, what i feel might be a problem (again haven't played many games yet to get a overall feel)

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by abcabc

hi there, wow so all the starters in the roster got their stamina tabulated from IP/start. I thought it was through something else like personal input from you roster guys. IP/start, the problem is no all starts conclude with the starter being taken out of the game due to him getting tired. Sometimes it's due to him getting hammered or runners in scoring position in a tight game or whatever... meaning there are instances through starts where the IP/start is what it is not because they represent his fatigue. Like Some starters are coming back from injury and their first two starts might be pulled after 5-6 innings for a 90 pitch pitchcount. I think Pineda had some of those. Wasnt he even ejected from a game due to Pine Tar, that would hurt his ip/start avg. He also was a guy coming off shoulder woes last season into this spring training, he was likely on a innings limit even if he hadn't suffered his injury and pine tar ejection this year. Like I was watching McCarthy on the NYY about 3 weeks ago on TV... 115pitches, his 115th pitch, a 94 or 95MPH fastball, i made a mental note. Tonight's NYY starter Shane Greene, his start last week he did around 110 pitches in 5+innings... he was still able to still throw hard, I dont remember specific numbers like I did for McCarthy... Ill have to play games w/ both of these pitchers... but i'm just wondering... if Pineda in the roster is any indication... the problem with how the Show handles 'stamina' and fatigue is once it sets in and you see the warning on screen... the next 10-20 pitches are sorta tightrope kinds of pitches... I think if you do the 'eye test' to the starters in MLB, it is someone like 39 yr old Kuroda that has dropoff in his stuff after 90 pitches... actually on NYY broadcast they went through his metrics and it's evident. IMHO most of the starters in MLB, when translated into the show, should not see the popup 'tiring' message and not experience their mojo losing punch until after he tosses 95-105 pitches, regardless of the IP per start average. I do know that the starter stamina slider can curve the entire roster up to fix for me, what i feel might be a problem (again haven't played many games yet to get a overall feel)

So basically Pineda should have low stamina after all? lol. You pretty much listed the reasons for why he doesn't go deep into games. He's brittle etc..

Feel free to make you own edits. I don't have any problems with IP/start as a way of doing stamina and I have starters going over 100 pitches on a regular basis in my chise.

We aren't taking data for 1 start here, but a year or more of data, so over time, IP/start gives reliable data to where the guys that go deeper into games are guys that you'd expect to do that. If a guy's always getting hammered or coming back from injury, then he doesn't deserve a high stamina anyway because he's not going deep into games, so I'm not really convinced by your argument as to why IP/start would be a bad thing to use.

You really can't do stamina systematically without some metric to back it up. If you go by "feel" it's just playing favorites. Whether you use pitch counts, or IP/season, or IP/start, you have to use some numbers or it's no good. I found that IP/start was the best of all possible evils.

[abcabc]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

So basically Pineda should have low stamina after all? lol. You pretty much listed the reasons for why he doesn't go deep into games. He's brittle etc.. Feel free to make you own edits. I don't have any problems with IP/start as a way of doing stamina and I have starters going over 100 pitches on a regular basis in my chise. We aren't taking data for 1 start here, but a year or more of data, so over time, IP/start gives reliable data to where the guys that go deeper into games are guys that you'd expect to do that. If a guy's always getting hammered or coming back from injury, then he doesn't deserve a high stamina anyway because he's not going deep into games, so I'm not really convinced by your argument as to why IP/start would be a bad thing to use. You really can't do stamina systematically without some metric to back it up. If you go by "feel" it's just playing favorites. Whether you use pitch counts, or IP/season, or IP/start, you have to use some numbers or it's no good. I found that IP/start was the best of all possible evils.

im sure you will see starters do 100 pitches regularly, i'm a bit curious (and i will find out) how many fatigue out earlier 80-90 pitches (or later in some instances) in the game character vs their real life selves at 90 pitches,at 105 pitches, etc. I used Kuroda tonight and went up to 104pitches, he was out of gas about 94-104, I'm fine with how he was reflected in the game btw.

No argument that IP/start is a bad, I asked what was used to tabulate the ratings, got the answer, and was surprised it was only ip/start, thought it was IP/start PLUS something else, not just IP/start... which was the part that I thought wasn't 'enough'....

No, I pretty much listed reasons for why Pineda ma have a high injury prone attribute LOL, not that he should have low 'stamina' ratings. I said the pitcher has been babied by NYY coaching, yanking him early at times when he was fine... Meaning, in the game I will decide to not baby him, using him more than 3x through the line up, not worry about him for instance, being on the mound en route to 200 innings (if he stays injury free) in the console game whereas in real life, he was going to be on a innings limit for the season since he was, like all young pitchers, going to have their innings total from the prior season 2013 taken into account for 2014.

All I am saying is am I finding Pitcher John Doe, at the 80th pitch in the console game, will his fastball be 92mph like his real life ability. will it be so and so at the 90th pitch, at the 100th, 110th etc. Does that drop off point parallel between roster player vs. real life player is the point.

Feeling ip/start was the best platform of all evils is enough that I need to know, it's a trade off.

Prob the best thing the inning/ip allows for is SIM games will by end of season in the console game, allow the pitchers in the roster to have end of season IP totals to similarly tally up to what their real life stat totals had been... I think this has been mentioned 2-3 yrs ago in prior roster discussions by other board members.

Would the player speed attribute or base aggressiveness be dictated by how many steals a player has throughout the season out of how many attempts? I think that was another discussion a few yrs ago, again by other board members.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by abcabc

im sure you will see starters do 100 pitches regularly, i'm a bit curious (and i will find out) how many fatigue out earlier 80-90 pitches (or later in some instances) in the game character vs their real life selves at 90 pitches,at 105 pitches, etc. I used Kuroda tonight and went up to 104pitches, he was out of gas about 94-104, I'm fine with how he was reflected in the game btw. No argument that IP/start is a bad, I asked what was used to tabulate the ratings, got the answer, and was surprised it was only ip/start, thought it was IP/start PLUS something else, not just IP/start... which was the part that I thought wasn't 'enough'.... No, I pretty much listed reasons for why Pineda ma have a high injury prone attribute LOL, not that he should have low 'stamina' ratings. I said the pitcher has been babied by NYY coaching, yanking him early at times when he was fine... Meaning, in the game I will decide to not baby him, using him more than 3x through the line up, not worry about him for instance, being on the mound en route to 200 innings (if he stays injury free) in the console game whereas in real life, he was going to be on a innings limit for the season since he was, like all young pitchers, going to have their innings total from the prior season 2013 taken into account for 2014. All I am saying is am I finding Pitcher John Doe, at the 80th pitch in the console game, will his fastball be 92mph like his real life ability. will it be so and so at the 90th pitch, at the 100th, 110th etc. Does that drop off point parallel between roster player vs. real life player is the point. Feeling ip/start was the best platform of all evils is enough that I need to know, it's a trade off. Prob the best thing the inning/ip allows for is SIM games will by end of season in the console game, allow the pitchers in the roster to have end of season IP totals to similarly tally up to what their real life stat totals had been... I think this has been mentioned 2-3 yrs ago in prior roster discussions by other board members. Would the player speed attribute or base aggressiveness be dictated by how many steals a player has throughout the season out of how many attempts? I think that was another discussion a few yrs ago, again by other board members.

First off, great post and response to my earlier post. I am glad that you clarified what you meant about IP/start because my original take was that you thought a stat like that had no place in the determination of stamina. But, that you actually advocated a two-component approach is a bit different. The problem is I am uncomfortable adding a "going by feel" metric because I fear that will just end up boosting Felix to 99 stamina etc..without any real objective benefits.

Although the quality of the pitches does change after hitting the "no stamina left" barrier, it's still absolutely manageable to pitch effectively even with 2-3 mph less on the FB. I have gone 1-2 innings on "E" so to speak and been able to do so effectively. I would also stress the benefit that you mentioned of sim stats coming out better off, although CGs and shutouts are still way too high using the slider set that I use. This can be impacted with sliders, though.

Yes, the stealing and BR aggressiveness attributes are directly related to SB% and number of SB attempts respectively. If there was a lot of variation in yearly % or attempts, a larger sample size was used, but if the variation was small, the most recent yearly data was used.

[SOPMODM68]

Hannibal Lecter said it best patience go to the ones who wait!

Excellent roster!!

D