Reaction time and acceleration time

[Bobhead]

For a few years now I've felt that fielders in MLB The Show react at superhuman speeds.... far quicker than fielders do in real life. The crux of the problem is that human reaction is a multi-layered and variable concept, while MLB The Show just lumps it all together into one number.

Before I say anything, I'll define some terms. I am not talking about a fielder's ability to catch a ball hit directly to them (one that doesn't require them to move their legs). This thread is strictly about a fielder's ability to begin moving/running in response to a batted ball.

I know statistical/scientific evidence is always appreciated here. Ideally I could just post a bunch of random videos of actual MLB fielders reacting to balls, and point to the timestamps. However, MLB's media and copyright policies mean that all we have is the small random sample of videos available on MLB's website. Maybe someone more internet-savvy than me can produce raw reaction data for MLB athletes, but I can't. So I'll try a different approach.

I've timed it in the past, and in The Show, fielders tend to break (first movement in a direction) for balls at a range of about .3 to .6 seconds. Defined exactly, that is .3 to .6 seconds from the crack of the bat, until the fielder's first step hits the ground.

Now it's true that human brains are capable at reacting to stimuli at a rate faster than that. A quick google search tells you that 100 to 200 milliseconds is all it takes for many subjects of reaction-tests. But that's sitting in a chair with your finger hovering over a button, or having your brain hooked up to scanners to monitor activity. In the former case, you are 100% focused on only one possible stimulus, and there's only one possible reaction to it. In the latter case, you don't even have to do anything.

As the stimuli gets more complex, reaction speed drops dramatically. I thought a good comparison was driving, since it's non-reflexive and requires physical response. A driver's typical reaction time is .75 seconds. Your foot is only four inches from the brake pedal at all times, and already the time has doubled, compared to basic stimuli testing. Four inches. 750 Milliseconds.

Neither of those tests come close to the act of reacting to a baseball. You are not waiting for a single stimulus, you are responding to one of many (the baseball can go in many directions and speeds). It's not enough to just mentally recognize a location or direction. You then have to process instructions sent to your muscles, your muscles have to respond to that signal, and then your body fights inertia and begins accelerating.

Yes, drivers are not athletes. MLB players represent an elite selection of athletes, compared to other baseball players, and all those players are at a higher level of athleticism than the typical human being. It's both safe and reasonable to assume that MLB fielders, in turn, have slightly higher reaction speeds than the typical person.

But given the information above, it's also safe and reasonable to assume that it is physically impossible for a first step to be made in anything less than 400 milliseconds.

I hope this is something that is looked at going forward. These forums are (rightfully) littered with complaints about gap hits not falling in, line drives not making it to the outfield, etc... It's true that ball physics factors into that, and the physics should be improved. However, a correction to how fielders react would be a fairly simple, and tremendous boost to the overall realism of the game.

[Blzer]

I'll go ahead and say that I agree, given that every year I have to reduce the Fielder Reaction slider to 0 (for both infield and outfield). There still have to be many more things SCEA will have to do to remedy the XBH's down the line issues.

I thought this thread was going to be about individual attributes, though. A long, long time ago a former version of myself was suggesting a Total Control Fielding system for the MLB 2K series, and within there fielders had a "first step," "second step," and "third step" attribute. As great as the idea was, the problem would be actually measuring that for players. So I see how that idea is easy to nix.

You have it pretty right on-the-nose, though. There are many things the gameplay still needs to address. I will also say there has to be something for accelerating/running backwards versus forwards or laterally. If they can differentiate the two, that would be very helpful.

Bobhead, let's get a few more guys like us where we can collaborate and throw some wicked, in-depth suggestions to next year's developer-requested wishlist thread, if things aren't in place for '16 already.

[tessl]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying but you seem to be assuming that animated character on the screen has a brain, eyes and a nervous system. If programming ever gets that good I'll be scared.

[Blzer]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying but you seem to be assuming that animated character on the screen has a brain, eyes and a nervous system. If programming ever gets that good I'll be scared.

Nope, it just has programming. Alongside programming, you can create convincingly realistic AI given the computer power of these systems. It's hard to create "imperfections" at times though, it seems. But everything is logic-based.

[nemesis04]

It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the Human IK element will improve this aspect of the game. In theory it should address some of it.

[Bobhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by nemesis04

It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the Human IK element will improve this aspect of the game. In theory it should address some of it.

That's my hope as well. Eyeballing it, I haven't seen much evidence of players reacting to balls hit right towards them better than they should. The right amount of line drives seem to be caught. However, when any amount of movement is required for a play, that is when this reaction issue really presents itself .

That seems to play right into what Human IK can do.

[nemesis04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

That's my hope as well. Eyeballing it, I haven't seen much evidence of players reacting to balls hit right towards them better than they should. The right amount of line drives seem to be caught. However, when any amount of movement is required for a play, that is when this reaction issue really presents itself . That seems to play right into what Human IK can do.

I would not put much into the trailer to look for huge differences. I am sure we will get a blog or twitch video going over in detail how specifically it will impact the game.

[Speedy]

Quote: Originally Posted by nemesis04

It will be interesting to see how the introduction of the Human IK element will improve this aspect of the game. In theory it should address some of it.

Human IK element?

Is this the same thing where they said certain players on the base paths will run at different speeds?

EDIT: Watched Ramone talk thru the trailer; maybe this is much bigger than the 2 seconds he mentioned it being.