Jordan vs McGrady

[Chris Smoove]

Quote: Originally Posted by kuchainzz

"Cheese" is just a term people use to describe something that they can't stop. Sure anyone can hold turbo and run down the sideline and have a solid chance at dunking, but it's still possible to stop. If people want to run 32 and trap out of it just swing the ball. There isn't one thing in the game that's completely unstoppable. If someone wants to play players "out of position" then attack what they should allegedly be poor at doing since they're out of position. The goal is to have the 5 players out on the floor that give you the best chance to win. So be it if that results in playing without a more traditional point guard.

That's not true. I've been stopping cheesers for years online. In quick matches, in My Team, etc. Cheese isn't about whether you can stop something or not, its about purposely exploiting the games flaws and ruining the fun factor. Here's a example. In 2k13 (link to vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeoXZQru19Q) I won all my games in the 2nd to advance to the 1st and unlock Jordan. The game linked above the guy is using Kobe as his PG. If you were to go back in the playlist and watch the other 8 games you'll see people abusing the 1-3-1 zone and various other methods of cheese. I handle all of them and go undefeated to unlock Jordan

When people put LeBron's and Jordan's at PG, I deal with it just fine. The problem is that I'm forced to use less than a handful of real point guards if I want to compete. If people had to use real PGs, then I could use dozens of different guys. Point guard play would be much more fun. Instead of Oscar, I'd be able to run with Tony Parker, Lillard, Kyrie, or various legends such as Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, etc, but because of this point guard cheese every year I have to use either Penny, Magic, Oscar, or Gary Payton as my starting PG.

When people cheesed with 1-3-1 zone, I dealt with it just fine. The problem is that instead of having variety in my offense (post up plays, pick and roll plays, off ball screen plays, etc) I was forced to have 4 out of 5 of my players on the court at all times be a 3 point threat. I couldn't run any plays or sets. I had to just pass the ball around over and over until finally someone has an open shot. Whoever that was they needed to shoot almost immediately before the cheesy 1-3-1 zone defenders rotated over. It gets boring playing the exact same strategy every single game. Now that the zone is removed from the game, the gameplay is much more fun! I can run two natural bigmen if I want. I can play small ball. I can run various different types of plays. The strategy from game to game is much more dynamic than in the past.

Cheese ruins the gameplay and fun factor in many different ways. When I and many other players talk about cheese, were not talking about things we can't stop. We're talking about things that ruin the gameplay.

[kuchainzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Smoove

That's not true. I've been stopping cheesers for years online. In quick matches, in My Team, etc. Cheese isn't about whether you can stop something or not, its about purposely exploiting the games flaws and ruining the fun factor. Here's a example. In 2k13 (link to vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeoXZQru19Q) I won all my games in the 2nd to advance to the 1st and unlock Jordan. The game linked above the guy is using Kobe as his PG. If you were to go back in the playlist and watch the other 8 games you'll see people abusing the 1-3-1 zone and various other methods of cheese. I handle all of them and go undefeated to unlock Jordan When people put LeBron's and Jordan's at PG, I deal with it just fine. The problem is that I'm forced to use less than a handful of real point guards if I want to compete. If people had to use real PGs, then I could use dozens of different guys. Point guard play would be much more fun. Instead of Oscar, I'd be able to run with Tony Parker, Lillard, Kyrie, or various legends such as Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, etc, but because of this point guard cheese every year I have to use either Penny, Magic, Oscar, or Gary Payton as my starting PG. When people cheesed with 1-3-1 zone, I dealt with it just fine. The problem is that instead of having variety in my offense (post up plays, pick and roll plays, off ball screen plays, etc) I was forced to have 4 out of 5 of my players on the court at all times be a 3 point threat. I couldn't run any plays or sets. I had to just pass the ball around over and over until finally someone has an open shot. Whoever that was they needed to shoot almost immediately before the cheesy 1-3-1 zone defenders rotated over. It gets boring playing the exact same strategy every single game. Now that the zone is removed from the game, the gameplay is much more fun! I can run two natural bigmen if I want. I can play small ball. I can run various different types of plays. The strategy from game to game is much more dynamic than in the past. Cheese ruins the gameplay and fun factor in many different ways. When I and many other players talk about cheese, were not talking about things we can't stop. We're talking about things that ruin the gameplay.

That is how you use the term "cheese", but most of the time it's used it is used to describe something that results in a loss for the user i.e. whenever a new challenge comes out and shots don't drop like they do in domination it's because of "slider cheese." God forbid players miss wide open shots.

I agree that the 1-3-1 was pretty OP and the up and under/spin move lay-in a few years ago was pretty bad as well but nothing in this years game comes close to either of those. Just because someone runs a big PG doesn't mean you have to. According to 80% of the people that post on here post play is broken anyway so who cares if you're giving up a few inches. On offense you should be able to get past the bigger players guarding you if you have a quick point like Wall or Kyrie. Just because Magic is listed as a PG means it's okay to play him there even though he has similar vitals to LeBron and most other SF/PF?

[BBall1013423]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Smoove

That's not true. I've been stopping cheesers for years online. In quick matches, in My Team, etc. Cheese isn't about whether you can stop something or not, its about purposely exploiting the games flaws and ruining the fun factor. Here's a example. In 2k13 (link to vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeoXZQru19Q) I won all my games in the 2nd to advance to the 1st and unlock Jordan. The game linked above the guy is using Kobe as his PG. If you were to go back in the playlist and watch the other 8 games you'll see people abusing the 1-3-1 zone and various other methods of cheese. I handle all of them and go undefeated to unlock Jordan When people put LeBron's and Jordan's at PG, I deal with it just fine. The problem is that I'm forced to use less than a handful of real point guards if I want to compete. If people had to use real PGs, then I could use dozens of different guys. Point guard play would be much more fun. Instead of Oscar, I'd be able to run with Tony Parker, Lillard, Kyrie, or various legends such as Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, etc, but because of this point guard cheese every year I have to use either Penny, Magic, Oscar, or Gary Payton as my starting PG. When people cheesed with 1-3-1 zone, I dealt with it just fine. The problem is that instead of having variety in my offense (post up plays, pick and roll plays, off ball screen plays, etc) I was forced to have 4 out of 5 of my players on the court at all times be a 3 point threat. I couldn't run any plays or sets. I had to just pass the ball around over and over until finally someone has an open shot. Whoever that was they needed to shoot almost immediately before the cheesy 1-3-1 zone defenders rotated over. It gets boring playing the exact same strategy every single game. Now that the zone is removed from the game, the gameplay is much more fun! I can run two natural bigmen if I want. I can play small ball. I can run various different types of plays. The strategy from game to game is much more dynamic than in the past. Cheese ruins the gameplay and fun factor in many different ways. When I and many other players talk about cheese, were not talking about things we can't stop. We're talking about things that ruin the gameplay.

Ok, so basically you say you can stop all the cheese in the game and talk of how you never lose because of it (We wouldnt know anyway because you never upload losses) but than you come right back and say we shouldnt be able to run players out of position even though you say you can stop it just fine?

This is no different from any other of the exploits in the game, Im just not seeing it of how you think this is such a huge issue. RTP is not real basketball simulation, you never see some of the things in RTP happen in real life. So if someone wants to run Lebron or Kobe at point guard, it is what it is. Plus guys like Lebron and Harden have plus passing and handling skills and would be suited for point guard in 2k, its a mode called "My Team" Let the people do what they want

[QNo]

Just because something can be stopped doesn't mean that it should be in the game, bad argument. E.g. I can stop baseline cheese most of the time but it shouldn't be in the game. I spend tons of MT on Onyx Oscar because I need a PG who can deal with people playing LeBron. Lillard can't deal with LeBron at point while LeBron has no problem whatsoever guarding Lillard. It's a big issue because it's completely different from how real basketball teams play. In the NBA, 3 guard lineups have certain advantages and disadvantages. In 2k, they only have disadvantages. Size is too important and bigger, slower defenders can keep up with super fast guards.

[jenesaispas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Smoove

That's not true. I've been stopping cheesers for years online. In quick matches, in My Team, etc. Cheese isn't about whether you can stop something or not, its about purposely exploiting the games flaws and ruining the fun factor. Here's a example. In 2k13 (link to vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeoXZQru19Q) I won all my games in the 2nd to advance to the 1st and unlock Jordan. The game linked above the guy is using Kobe as his PG. If you were to go back in the playlist and watch the other 8 games you'll see people abusing the 1-3-1 zone and various other methods of cheese. I handle all of them and go undefeated to unlock Jordan When people put LeBron's and Jordan's at PG, I deal with it just fine. The problem is that I'm forced to use less than a handful of real point guards if I want to compete. If people had to use real PGs, then I could use dozens of different guys. Point guard play would be much more fun. Instead of Oscar, I'd be able to run with Tony Parker, Lillard, Kyrie, or various legends such as Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, etc, but because of this point guard cheese every year I have to use either Penny, Magic, Oscar, or Gary Payton as my starting PG. When people cheesed with 1-3-1 zone, I dealt with it just fine. The problem is that instead of having variety in my offense (post up plays, pick and roll plays, off ball screen plays, etc) I was forced to have 4 out of 5 of my players on the court at all times be a 3 point threat. I couldn't run any plays or sets. I had to just pass the ball around over and over until finally someone has an open shot. Whoever that was they needed to shoot almost immediately before the cheesy 1-3-1 zone defenders rotated over. It gets boring playing the exact same strategy every single game. Now that the zone is removed from the game, the gameplay is much more fun! I can run two natural bigmen if I want. I can play small ball. I can run various different types of plays. The strategy from game to game is much more dynamic than in the past. Cheese ruins the gameplay and fun factor in many different ways. When I and many other players talk about cheese, were not talking about things we can't stop. We're talking about things that ruin the gameplay.

to add to this, I shouldnt have to adjust my entire scheme because of how another uses exploits. it's absolutely ridiculous. I want to use my Onyx Big O exactly as he was intended. I want to bring in my Ruby James harden and use him as intended. I dont wanna have to deal with Lebron at PG, Pink Diamond Carmelo at SHOOTING GUARD(?????). The entire community wants the game to be more sim....but in the same breathe dont want us to complain about cheesers because this somehow is an indictment on us and not the people that literally abuse exploits to win? the more 2K focuses on spacing, ball movement, fixing animations, etc. the less cheese there will be.

[Midnitewaters]

The term cheese and sweaty in fut is starting to ruin the gaming community. Its to the point where you cant do anything in the game without making someone mad. Ive even heard of score abuse. I cant even stand to watch most youtubers because all they do is complain. People need to stop making up their own rules and telling others how to play.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

[Tons28]

Quote: Originally Posted by Midnitewaters

The term cheese and sweaty in fut is starting to ruin the gaming community. Its to the point where you cant do anything in the game without making someone mad. Ive even heard of score abuse. I cant even stand to watch most youtubers because all they do is complain. People need to stop making up their own rules and telling others how to play. http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

There's the fine line between blaming losses on cheese/abuse and what's the real cause.

Definately a large contingent of players in Fifa and Madden who turn the game into process of finding glitched animations, plays, players etc and then put them on the assembly line as their product. And if they are a good player and using them, even worse. That's what can become very frustrating. I don't play RTTP often because it's the only online mode I have that lag, but have seen it (nowhere near as bad as Fifa, comparable to Madden).

Only letting a player have one backup position wouldn't matter as people would maximize the ones who do (as if my T-Mac didn't cost enough before).

That's the one thing about every UT/MT mode. Some people will do anything to win, it's the same way in games like Hearthstone where people play the same decks with the exact same rules on what to play/when. I just don't find that fun but they do.

On the playing to win article that always gets tossed around on MT/UT games...this isn't a job, its a game. Abusing the glitches makes it more of a job/blueprint than a game.

[kabamaru]

Quote: Originally Posted by Midnitewaters

The term cheese and sweaty in fut is starting to ruin the gaming community. Its to the point where you cant do anything in the game without making someone mad. Ive even heard of score abuse. I cant even stand to watch most youtubers because all they do is complain. People need to stop making up their own rules and telling others how to play. http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

to add to this the world sweaty in Fut started as a way to describe the pass to a teammate when 2 vs the goalkeeper which is what EVERY single player would do irl.It is just elitistic