Ewing or Sabonis...or Both?

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by roboas

Yes, Magic is ideal in that scheme. I have PD Jerry, but I'll sub in Magic if my opponent puts deny on Sabonis.

Subbing in Magic to work the post because, if they Deny on Sabonis, that means opposing Center is totally committed to perimeter and cannot help in the paint?

I would imagine, also, that what could work well is a high 1-4 PnR in 5-out with Sabonis parked in the corner. I just discovered, belatedly, how insane Hawks Josh Smith is at catching alley-oops and converting them, as a roll man. It's a shame that I can't shoot reliably over 40% with him. Walker probably works pretty decently as well, given that he has even better Acceleration and Hands, but just doesn't have the nutso ups and dunking of Smoove.

Off-topic, but was scorching some (admittedly, not good) player in MTO last night with Ruby Westbrook / Saph Kawhi / Ruby Majerle or Rewards Marion / Saph Josh Smith / Kareem.

Westbrook is such a big threat to roll off a screen and drive for a dunk, he pulls off defenders, and also a good candidate for lobbing up that alley-oop for Smoove to throw down.

And with an Off-Dribble Mid shoe, he's an even bigger PnR threat, because he can knock down that moving mid so reliably.

[roboas]

Quote: Originally Posted by harryl

Subbing in Magic to work the post because, if they Deny on Sabonis, that means opposing Center is totally committed to perimeter and cannot help in the paint? I would imagine, also, that what could work well is a high 1-4 PnR in 5-out with Sabonis parked in the corner.

Exactly. Magic requires a doubleteam to stop in the paint, and its the Center who usually comes over (most people off ball with their center anyways). Once the center commits to doubling magic, you pass to sabonis. If the Center stays on Sabonis, you get the hook/layup with Magic.

In a normal, non-deny defensive scheme, the Center ALWAYS commits to defending the paint if you drive to his side of the point - its just the way the AI works. The moment you see that first step, you pass out and it's to a wide open Sabonis. I like guys with flashy passing because it gives not only the dimer boost, but the flashy pass boost as well, and it looks cool.

I haven't tried setting picks with Sabonis, that's not my offensive style with him. I'm not skilled enough to call the right pick and pop scheme either. Parking him in the corner and bombing 3s is pretty mindless and effective. And if your opponent is out of position, but there's not enough room to get off the shot, you can take them off the dribble for a dunk. I find this is what happens with Wallace a lot. He's too quick to have an open shot because he's rushing Sabonis, so you just run in the opposite direction - toward the hoop. It sounds pretty ridiculous, but I've taken WaLLace off the dribble many times with Sabonis with a high success rate.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by roboas

I like guys with flashy passing because it gives not only the dimer boost, but the flashy pass boost as well, and it looks cool.

Flashy passes also have always appeared, to me, to get delivered artificially fast, presumably to create/simulate the delayed reaction to the unexpected pass. So then you have a split-second more time to shoot if you go up with it immediately.

Quote:

It sounds pretty ridiculous, but I've taken WaLLace off the dribble many times with Sabonis with a high success rate.

Yeah, that is funny. I have been able to do it with guys like Josh Smith, of course, and occasionally with Boogie. Sabonis would be especially hilarious, all 7'3" of him lumbering his way to the driving dunk, off a pump-fake.

I'm definitely going to get Sabonis. And I think I'm going to get Ewing too. I'm watching Wilt slowly go down in price, as he gets listed at successively lower BIN prices on 4-hour auctions. Nobody is biting at 180K. Seems same at 170K. So I expect him to get down to 150K before the night is over and then it's going to be a real dilemma as to where to pick him up.

Already kind of a conundrum as to whether or not I should put up my Kareem for a 4-hour auction. None up on PC AH right now and I might be able to sell for atypically good price. But, at the same time, might get screwed and he sells for 100K and I can't rebuy at that price. Maybe not risk it just for the theoretical delta between his price tonight and tomorrow night.

Also 40 cards away from Diamond Grant Hill. So if I can get him this week, Diamond Patrick, Diamond Sabonis, and lock in Diamond LJ...going to be quite a week.

[roboas]

My issue with the Big Collection is that Bol or Bradley in the hands of a decent player will destroy Wilt / Kareem / Shaq / Ewing. So paying up for all of that only to be taken down by a 7'6 emerald player seems like a waste. On the other hand, Sabonis isn't playing in the post, so the defense that the tall guys offer doesn't affect him.

[Jachikevicius]

That's one of my favorite player but he is very expensive to get and there are plenty of players that will be locked that i am not going to use ever.

[harryl]

Thanks for all the input and conversation, guys. I decided to get Sabonis. Not necessarily instead of Ewing. If I can get a decent deal on Wilt, I'll get him and lock in Big Men for Ewing, too. (If you're on PC and want to sell Wilt, let me know. I want a good price, but don't need a big bargain.)

I'm okay with the knowledge that Ewing will be supplanted by a better Center later on. And definitely Sabonis is lacking in glaring ways (i.e. no HoF badging).

But, for me, they're both sentimental favorites from real life. And the best versions of themselves in recent years.

I get into badging of Sabonis here:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...&postcount=138

[roboas]

In my scheme, i'm not running PnRs with Sabonis. He's too slow to roll, and I haven't mastered the Pick and Pop. That's why I don't have brick wall on him. I also didn't add deep range deadeye because in the scheme I run, I am taking wide open corner 3s. I added:

Posterizer
Acrobat
Relentless
Hustle Rebounder
Rim Protector
Catch and Shoot

Posterizer: He needs it, bad. If you go into practice mode, he won't standing dunk. Nor will he get many in game. I added it, now he smashes it down. He's not Shaq in the paint, but if he has an edge, he will poster dudes hard.

Acrobat: Not sure on this one. He still seems to miss on layup animations. He gets into weird situations where you think he's gonna lay it high off the glass or dunk, but he does some funky reacharound that bounces off the rim. I added acrobat because of this, and I'm not sure if it helps. It does help on the standard layin animations though.

Relentless: I just think this is a must on any guy other than a spot up shooter. Others feel differently.

Hustle Rebounder: You gotta add this one. He gets boards, and if he's fighting Wilt or Shaq, you need all the help you can get. He's a pretty good rebounder. Not as good as Wilt or Shaq, but close, and better than anyone else.

Rim Protector: I got 7 blocks in my first game after adding this. You want it. If you start blocking their shots inside, they'll stop going inside.

Catch and shoot: This is his entire game in my opinion. You give him the corner 3, you want the catch and shoot and corner 3 lighting up with a 3 pt shoe on him, he's greening nearly half of these shots. Its sick.

Also, to your earlier question on the post game - I've played some more with this, and I think his postfade is pretty good, much better than i was expecting. Avoid the right side where his cold zone is, but on the left side, his post fade is just silly. And he has some crazy hop step shot animations that remind me of Dirk. I'm finding more and more ways to score with him and he's really a weapon. He's my favorite card.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by roboas

Catch and shoot: This is his entire game in my opinion. You give him the corner 3, you want the catch and shoot and corner 3 lighting up with a 3 pt shoe on him, he's greening nearly half of these shots. Its sick.

Dear lord, I'm an idiot. Of course. Catch & Shoot way up there in importance, along with Rim Protector.

Now the decision is really difficult. Will update that other thread for sake of continuity, with regard to badging. And quote your post, which is tremendous and very much appreciated.

Thanks also for the recall on the Post Fade question. Good to hear, even though I now have him and that's irrevocable. Will try practicing the Hop-Post-Fade and Hop-Step-Back jumpers with him. If one can really nail those down, it's great if they're money, because those shots are all but unguardable.

I imagine you're still running a lot of P&R, just not with him...P&R with your 4, with Sabonis settling in the corner? That's what I'm thinking with Wallace, who makes for an awesome roll man.

What I also intend to do is to take a hard look at the big man post-up plays for various playbooks and see if there's anything that not only ISO's the post-up big and loads up the weak side, but hopefully does not stay that way, static, but has some off-ball screening shenanigans going on to free up a cutter to the basket.

One can do that manually, of course, but it would be nice to have it be automatic so that one doesn't have to futz with too many different commands. So that, if the cutter gets the jump on his defender(s), just pass to him for the dunk. And if the post-up big reacts and moves toward the cutter, then immediately be able to flick to a hook, fade, or stepback.