I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

[luda06]

Quote: Originally Posted by ImaFreeThinker

Are you on XBO?...My SIM game won't disappoint you.

No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game.

However, that's not the case with NBA 2K. We'll find ways to abuse the passing system, just like we've abused the shooting mechanics, and almost every addition before it.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by luda06

Any mechanic that requires a user to perfect the timing of can be cheesed to death. It's why we care about which teams have players with the easiest shot releases, highest steal and dunk ratings. Because we know how to abuse the game-play mechanics tied to user control. You can make it, we can break it. It's just how things are.

You can always improve mechanics, and you can always limit the unrealistic advantages of timing. Checks and balances are the very nature of game design.

With your outlook, you might as well not play video games at all. Certainly not this one, which has certainly gotten better by the inclusion of things you're recommending to be taken out.

I love basketball. I love the pass. I love being engaged in the pass and all it's varieties and options even when I suck at it in real life. I know I don't want a game that completely "solves" the passing problem for me. Nor the shooting problem. Or the defensive problem. Or the ball handling problem. And I can't imagine how a game that abstracts the complexities into one button that you can casually hammer without thought would make a much better one than the one we have that increasingly mimics the real life activity it represents.

[ImaFreeThinker]

"No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game."

I'm not following your logic here. SIM is a "replication" of "real basketball teams" playing "real" basketball.

[luda06]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vni

That's because you're playing the wrong people. 2K isn't responsible for the player's lack of basketball knowledge.

The wrong people? Call it whatever you like. The facts don't change. The abuse of most if not all of 2K's gameplay mechanics are staples in quick matches and online leagues. The game-play experience between online and offline modes are so vastly different from one another, and that should not be the case. Entire strategies are simply ineffective online and vice-versa. Most of it is in direct relation to user control.

[luda06]

Quote: Originally Posted by ImaFreeThinker

"No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game." I'm not following your logic here. SIM is a "replication" of "real basketball teams" playing "real" basketball.

I'm saying you shouldn't have to declare your game is "sim". But you do. So, the base game itself is broken.

[ImaFreeThinker]

Ahhh...I see what you're saying now.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by luda06

I'm suggesting that more freedom is generally a bad thing for players to have, and ran down a brief list of what we've had, and what we've abused. The more freedom 2K gives us, just makes the game much more difficult to maintain, and actually focus on basic gameplay features such a competent A.I. to play against.

But simply being able to choose the type and speed of a pass is not something that can be abused. Choosing the type of pass wouldn't increase the passers rating, nor would it lower the defense's ability to deflect it. It simply means you choose to pass it that way, the same as if I choose to take a fadeaway to the right or to the left. I'm not sure how you're not understanding this.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by luda06

No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game. However, that's not the case with NBA 2K. We'll find ways to abuse the passing system, just like we've abused the shooting mechanics, and almost every addition before it.

The abuses have a whole lot less to do with control mechanics than they do with a poor sim engine in certain areas, bad animations, lag, physics, AI, and inappropriate online difficulty settings.

Taking away user control won't fix most of that. It'll just be less input and more watching of these abuses happen before you.

Not to mention that pass abuses don't even headline the game's worst abuses. Except dump cheese and lob cheese-- both of which can be just as abused if the AI just picked what type of pass to pass, because at its core it's not a control issue. It's a pass simulation issue. And whatever logic you use to evaluate AI passes, you can leverage to determine success for manual passes, which 2K has been improving on WHILE ALSO increasing pass control, which runs counter to the claim that more control = unfixable cheese.