2K ratings have king of put me over the edge for this year's title

[SonicMage]

Quote: Originally Posted by freeagentwallace

Hassaan Whiteside is the poster-child of 2K rating inconsistency. First off, his rebound numbers are incredibly Godly. His ratings are 91 offensive and 94 defensive(base ratings before any increase). Deandre Jordan's base ratings are 79 Offensive rebound. Deandre's offensive rebound average this year is .2 ratings points lower than Hassaan.....but this translates into 12 ratings points lower? How? Especially when Deandre led the league in Offensive rebounds last year. And with Hassan Whiteside averaging 12 total with 3 offensive, his rebounding ratings are higher than HAKEEM OLAJUWON in MyTeam whom they've manage to give a 65 Offensive and 83 defensive...but has the same numbers.

I can't speak to the Hakeem problem, classic players in general are messed up across the board.

But for current players, all I can say is that you're looking at the wrong stat. Rebound attributes are not based on rebounds per game, but rather Rebound %. Rebound % is the total percentage of available rebounds that that player grabbed while he was on the floor, a much better estimate of a player's ability to rebound. Deandre's offensive rebound numbers have been well below his average so far this season and the lower rating is justified. Whiteside is also below his performance last season but he is still rebounding at a high level. For comparison, right now Deandre's Off Rebound % is a dismal 9.3 while Whiteside is at 11.0. That's what explains the big rating difference.

[freeagentwallace]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sonicmage

I can't speak to the Hakeem problem, classic players in general are messed up across the board. But for current players, all I can say is that you're looking at the wrong stat. Rebound attributes are not based on rebounds per game, but rather Rebound %. Rebound % is the total percentage of available rebounds that that player grabbed while he was on the floor, a much better estimate of a player's ability to rebound. Deandre's offensive rebound numbers have been well below his average so far this season and the lower rating is justified. Whiteside is also below his performance last season but he is still rebounding at a high level. For comparison, right now Deandre's Off Rebound % is a dismal 9.3 while Whiteside is at 11.0. That's what explains the big rating difference.

i understand rebound %. the stats are still off. deandre grabbed 5 Offensive rebounds per game this year and came in with lower ratings than Hassan. last year he accounted for 16% of his teams offensive rebounds, hassan 15%.

yet and still, those do not factor in style of play and lineup makeup. so one can not solely base it on rebound %.

all in all, the ratings are incredibly consistent.

[SonicMage]

Quote: Originally Posted by freeagentwallace

i understand rebound %. the stats are still off. deandre grabbed 5 Offensive rebounds per game this year and came in with lower ratings than Hassan. last year he accounted for 16% of his teams offensive rebounds, hassan 15%.

Forgive me, but I don't think you do understand what Rebound % is. It's not the % of all his team's rebounds that he grabbed. Its the % of all available missed shots that he grabbed while he was in the game. It's a very good measure of relative ability.

Where did you get that 5 ORPG stat from? Last year he was 4.8 ORPG but this year he's at 2.7. But that's just a per-game metric, anyways, not very accurate in this case because players play at different minutes per game, paces, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by freeagentwallace

yet and still, those do not factor in style of play and lineup makeup. so one can not solely base it on rebound %.

As far as the lineup argument, that's a myth, never been backed up by hard data. Andre Drummond playing beside Greg Monroe for those couple years never stopped him from having one of the best rebounding seasons ever. In reality, if you have enough sample data, player stats will tend to settle on their average no matter what, because sometimes they'll have a good game, sometimes a bad game, sometimes they'll play a great team, sometimes not such a great team, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by freeagentwallace

all in all, the ratings are incredibly consistent.

Agreed, but so far from what I've seen, it's not in the attributes, they're actually fairly decent for the first time in forever. The big problem is in the tendencies, and the very poor ratings for classic teams, especially the newer ones.

[freeagentwallace]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sonicmage

Forgive me, but I don't think you do understand what Rebound % is. It's not the % of all his team's rebounds that he grabbed. Its the % of all available missed shots that he grabbed while he was in the game. It's a very good measure of relative ability. Where did you get that 5 ORPG stat from? Last year he was 4.8 ORPG but this year he's at 2.7. But that's just a per-game metric, anyways, not very accurate in this case because players play at different minutes per game, paces, etc. As far as the lineup argument, that's a myth, never been backed up by hard data. Andre Drummond playing beside Greg Monroe for those couple years never stopped him from having one of the best rebounding seasons ever. In reality, if you have enough sample data, player stats will tend to settle on their average no matter what, because sometimes they'll have a good game, sometimes a bad game, sometimes they'll play a great team, sometimes not such a great team, etc. Agreed, but so far from what I've seen, it's not in the attributes, they're actually fairly decent for the first time in forever. The big problem is in the tendencies, and the very poor ratings for classic teams, especially the newer ones.

im sorry...its a myth because its never been backed by hard data? LMAO. i dont need hard data to tell me that a team playing with a stretch 4 that never is in rebound position is going to have his center gather more of the available missed shots than a team not constructed that way. smh. whatever floats your boat mate lololol.

[SonicMage]

Quote: Originally Posted by freeagentwallace

im sorry...its a myth because its never been backed by hard data? LMAO. i dont need hard data to tell me that a team playing with a stretch 4 that never is in rebound position is going to have his center gather more of the available missed shots than a team not constructed that way. smh. whatever floats your boat mate lololol.

I'm glad you mentioned stretch 4 because now I can go back to Drummond as an example. We can agree that Ilyasova is a stretch 4 and Monroe is more a rebounding pf/c, right? So why was Andre rebounding at a better percentage playing beside Monroe than he is now beside Ilyasova? Another great case is Dennis Rodman, who has better rebounding numbers on San Antonio beside David Robinson than in Chicago beside Longley or Detroit beside Laimbeer.

Great rebounders get theirs regardless of what teammates they share the floor with, there's no correlation between lineups and rebound frequency. The only measure that can affect a player's rebounding numbers besides their own skill is the system they play in.

[Tsuki]

Im here to only speak as a mygm/myleague player:

I dont know why anyone would start one of these modes with the out of box rosters. For some teams the ratings are off for most of the players, some teams the tendencies are off for the most of the players. Ratings and tendencies need to work in conjunction to create the best sim basketball experience for an entire season. Thus downloading a roster from our wonderful community who takes this into account is mandatory.

As far as online play now or myteam you guys have no choice but to argue that the out of the box and from there on updated rosters are a mess. I dont know what the answer to this is.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sonicmage

I'm glad you mentioned stretch 4 because now I can go back to Drummond as an example. We can agree that Ilyasova is a stretch 4 and Monroe is more a rebounding pf/c, right? So why was Andre rebounding at a better percentage playing beside Monroe than he is now beside Ilyasova? Another great case is Dennis Rodman, who has better rebounding numbers on San Antonio beside David Robinson than in Chicago beside Longley or Detroit beside Laimbeer. Great rebounders get theirs regardless of what teammates they share the floor with, there's no correlation between lineups and rebound frequency. The only measure that can affect a player's rebounding numbers besides their own skill is the system they play in.

There is some correlation, but a lot of it relates to position played rather than teammates. A center is naturally going to be in better rebound position than a PG.


For teammates it matters more for guards than it does actual PF/C. Jason Kidd and Rajon Rondo serve as great examples of PGs who had great rebound numbers on weak rebounding teams and saw their numbers greatly reduced when they joined Dallas via trade.

For bigs the only notable example I can think of is Chris Bosh who had inflated rebound totals playing next to Bargnani and then deflated rebound totals playing next to LeBron/Wade/Haslem. Typically there aren't many extreme examples like that. It's a consideration, but the hard stats are still the best measurement in 99% of cases.

[freeagentwallace]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sonicmage

I'm glad you mentioned stretch 4 because now I can go back to Drummond as an example. We can agree that Ilyasova is a stretch 4 and Monroe is more a rebounding pf/c, right? So why was Andre rebounding at a better percentage playing beside Monroe than he is now beside Ilyasova? Another great case is Dennis Rodman, who has better rebounding numbers on San Antonio beside David Robinson than in Chicago beside Longley or Detroit beside Laimbeer. Great rebounders get theirs regardless of what teammates they share the floor with, there's no correlation between lineups and rebound frequency. The only measure that can affect a player's rebounding numbers besides their own skill is the system they play in.

of course great rebounders are going to get theirs. you guys consistently go back to this % thing as the end all. Drummond's ACTUAL rebounding totals jumped up 5 more rebounds with Monroe gone. Your estimated % numbers aren't telling the entire story as his ACTUAL PRODUCTION on the floor increased to 18 rpg. Coincidentally, the pistons holding teams to 7 fewer ppg this year than last year, and 10 fewer ppg than the year before, which would mean they creating more turnovers and allowing less offensive rebounds which means less shot attempts for opposing teams...which all translates into less available rebounds as a whole than previous years with monroe and drummond together....which is why you guys going strictly off of % is laughable as there are many factors are at play. But 18 rebounds per game is what it is..

And some players are the exception...not the rule. Dennis would be one of those.